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SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

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OLDGUNNER
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#61 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:48 pm

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I stand corrected. I went back and reread. This is what he posted:
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#62 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:35 pm

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-snipers-us ... oom-scopes

This is why I always thought that fixed power scopes were better. You practice with one power and can more quickly make that better shot, I think. And, there can be eight or more pieces of glass in a variable power scope to look through, and maybe as little as four in a fixed scope. I am assuming that that is why I always thought that those cheap ‘Monoscopes’ were so clear. But when shooting at paper, it can be more pleasant and ‘Fun’, for lack of a better word to use that variable scope. Yes, I have both of course. And, we know that now-a-days these 1000 dollar and up Zeiss scopes look outstanding. One time in Vietnam a VC sniper missed my head maybe by a couple of inches – at least it sounded ‘like’ two inches. I don’t have any other experience with that.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#63 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:29 pm

I have had ‘Zero’ military marksmanship training, but I have my ideas of marksmanship, based on my country kid shooting experience. I would like to talk to a real military sniper that has gone through the military modern sniper training. I did have some what may be called ‘military shooting training’ in the fall of 1945 by an ex marine shooting trainer. It was just a local city sponsored shooting course for young kids using Winchester Model 52’s and Remington Model 513’s. I was 11 at the time. And that guy was what I would call a really, really good marksmanship trainer. We would shoot prone, kneeling and standing at a 50 foot indoor police shooting range. The targets were ten to a sheet about 1 and 1/2 inches in diameter with a black bull 10 ring of .22 inches in diameter. We would shoot one night a week for about six weeks with about 6 in each of his classes and I think he had three classes. At the end we had a shoot-off with a possible score of 300, 10 shoots at each of prone, kneeling and standing targets. One kid got a perfect 300 and I came in second with a 299. I really have no idea how this compares with modern shooting but I do believe that that .22 inch 10 ring was hard to do standing, and I sure do not believe that I could do it now-a-days.

But to my thoughts on modern military sniper training. I see all of the TV articles of the ‘spotter’ calling the ‘clicks’ adjustments to the shooter. Now to me with ‘zero’, ‘none’...experience in this, this just doesn’t sound right. Why bother with this secondary step in translating the spotter’s estimations into ‘clicks’ for the scope adjustment for the shooter. To me it would be just adding more room for error. Why can’t the spotter just say range is such-and-such and windage is 10 inches to the left? This is to me is immediately more usable information. This is why I would like to talk to a real sniper and get his thoughts on this. I wonder how much of this is ‘Hollywood’ and how much is real. I really don’t know.

My basic thoughts on this would be more like....start one’s training with one rifle, one weight of bullet, one type of bullet, one scope set at one power, be it 10 to 15 power or whatever. And, AND...after they can hit a nickel at whatever distance, up hill, down hill, in the rain or whatever, and then let every sniper keep that rifle with him from then on. Even if this is not possible they should be able to adapt to a new rifle within reason. The spotter can use his range-finder to give the range to the shooter and the windage correction and that’s it. The shooter can have his little range correction card as the video states, on their scope flip-up cover. There is nothing wrong with a good range reticle for the less trained.

Again, this is just my simplistic view of these things, and maybe, just maybe could it be that this is just too simple for the powers-to-be and think that it has to be more involved to sound professional. As I say I would like to know what a real sniper would think of this.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#64 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:43 am

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This is strictly for what it’s worth...for those that may like to make some ‘good’ black powder.

As far as I am concerned most do not. They are making it without forethought in what they are trying to do. They usually just follow someone’s instruction of someone that is acting also without forethought in what they are instructing. And of course one may think the same about what I may be saying and just not bother to read anymore.

I have a picture on another computer that I will try to find where I took a picture just after a shot with my black powder where just an almost indiscernible wisp of smoke can be seen. I have read and have no reason not to believe, that an outfit in Belgium has made black Powder that burns with a pressure of 75,000 psi, and one company in the UK has made black powder that burns with a pressure of 70,000 psi, but this is just in their lab and does not make a powder this strong for sale due to safety standards, where the norm for the regular commercial black powder on the market is in the area of 25,000 to 30,000 psi, so I’ve just read - don't really know about that. What I haven’t been able to do is determine just what are the methods and parameters for measuring the psi. I understand and I also believe that the normal commercial Black Powder on the market is purposely ‘derated’ and controlled from batch to batch for repeatability and safety concerns. It would be paramount for this to be the norm.

But with my situation I have no such restrictions. And...one time a couple of years ago I loaded three .45 Long Colt cases with my powder plum full and compressed with the same cast bullets as I used to load 3 other cases with a regular smokeless powder loading from a reloading manual, I forget how much of what. As for pressure of the powder, I believe this is important. Fact is the black powder will not burn in a vacuum...it requires some pressure to burn. It will usually burn at normal atmospheric pressure of the 14 plus psi. But somewhere between this and a vacuum it will stop burning, depending on the quality of the powder. This is why the same powder will burn with a lot more smoke in a muzzle loading rifle than in a brass case. And I shot all at my dirt spot on my hill side 210 yards away. As a precaution I put on a pair of safety glasses and used a regular full-face plastic face shield. And using a 5 and half inch barreled revolver shot them into what I would call the same 3 foot diameter circle. And I thought that the frequency of the report of the black powder was higher than the regular smokeless – with the nicest sounding crack. But I made my powder like no other way that I have seen on any Video or read in any book. And I used regular cheap garden supply 98 % Potassium Nitrate and cheap garden supply Sulfur.

Firstly and mainly I don’t use burned wood as most do for their charcoal. For the life of me I can not figure out why some will think that burned wood is the same as charcoal. For Black Powder, the charcoal should not have any wood ashes in it and to make sure that this doesn’t happen, do not allow any of the wood to burn. For my charcoal maker I started with an old electric heating coil controlled with a high powered AC control like the ones for regular light dimmers, only with a big high power Diac. This is not necessary these days because there are a lots of ways to control the power to the heating coil, but control is necessary. I have not done any fine tuning after my last batch. I would say to slowly increase the temperature of the charring chamber until the smoke just starts to come out of the vent port and do not increase the temperature, just let it char at this temperature until the smoke stops. In case the last of the wood doesn’t char, one may just increase the temperature a tad bit for a few minutes and if there is no more smoke, then turn everything off. I will just show a picture of the temperature control that I made. I just think that tight control of temperature is most important. That little digital read-out is just an AC amp meter to see what I am doing. The two black knobs are for course and fine current control.

Things that I considered: Making good charcoal is one of the two most important parts of making good black powder.

1. Use an air-tight metal container for my charring wood, except for one small vent hole.
2. I used typically one half to three quarters of an inch at the most diameter of ‘SEEP WILLOW’. This is not a true ‘willow’, but is so widely available in the US and is so easy to get. One may wish to see pictures of it on the web. I cut it into 2 inch long pieces, without the knots and bark to fit my metal 3 inch high pan with a tight fitting lid, after splitting into four pieces so to make the charring as uniform as I could with all pieces standing vertically and firmly packed. Sloppy work making the charcoal will make for sloppy black powder.

The next most important thing is to ‘Ball-Mill’ everything. I made some different ‘ball molds’ to make my lead balls out of wheel weights.

1. After three hours of ball milling the charcoal, if there are any little pieces of charcoal that did not get balled into fine powder, take them out and discard.
2. Measure out a given amount by weight and add the proper amount of powdered Potassium Nitrate.
3. Ball mill for another 3 hours.
4. Add the proper amount of sulfur. I used a fine sulfur power for garden use.
5. Ball mill for another 3 hours.

Now here is where I made my last two batches differently...but I did not notice any difference between the two. In my second from the last I added a little water just to a fine dampness and ball-milled for another hour maybe. And rolled it out on wax paper with a rolling pin as thin as I could get it and let it dry for a couple of days. I had five stripes of wax paper five feet long. And worried it around in a wire strainer until it all was through.

Okay, in my last batch, I didn’t bother with this....I just used it as it came out of my last ball-milling – super fine....no ‘F’ number – didn’t care.

I have one of those 20 ton presses but have not tried pressing it into hard pucks first because it has worked so good without.

I paid 15 dollars for 5 pounds of Potassium Nitrate and maybe 2 for a pound of sulfur, so my black powder came out to just over 3 dollars a pound, and it burns so clean.

Rather than say all the time, “This is the way I did it,” this is what I meant. I am in no way saying or suggesting that anyone follow what I did. One place one may get into trouble is with a muzzle loading rifle and use too much of the fine powder, so I would just suggest don’t use it in one, I don’t. I just haven’t gotten around to making any more of a course powder.
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OLDGUNNER
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#65 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:41 am

In passing, I just came across this. I don’t know how it was decided as 9th. But our property borders the National Forest just 100 yards behind our house. It isn’t everyone that has a 500,000 acre back yard. https://www.outsideonline.com/2006426/a ... towns-2015
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#66 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:38 pm

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I like this------Someone told him that he needed a drop tube...he will make a long ‘drop tube’...the longer one should make things more better than a shorter drop tube. Now he has a sense of humor.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#67 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:43 am

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For years I had been wondering just where this was. There was no indication in the road map. One day I looked in the rear view mirror and there it was – just down the road a piece. I had been ‘coming’ from that direction all of the time. We would be leaving Phoenix in the morning in coming this way after dark.
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