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Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

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KneverKnew
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Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#1 Post by KneverKnew » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:35 pm

I purchased 40 cases of straight drawn Bertram 43 Beaumont cases that haven’t been formed yet. The intent was to use 8mm Lebel dies and others to size them down and then fire form as is readily done with 50/90 brass. Problem is the Bertram brass heads are larger than the 50/90 so sizing with Lebel dies won’t work. Does some one have the proper CH4D forming dies who would be willing to form these cases for me? I already ruined two cases so there are a total of 38 left. I truly would appreciate it.

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#2 Post by SWIHARTMARK » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:02 am

I have the dies and have formed this brass with 50-90 Sharps. I once had a problem with Jamison 43 Mauser brass and had to anneal it and then run it through my dies. Your cases might need annealing as well and it really doesn't hurt them if done right.

I'll send you a PM shortly.

Best Regards,

Marj

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#3 Post by KneverKnew » Thu May 02, 2019 9:17 am

SWIHARTMARK wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:02 am
I have the dies and have formed this brass with 50-90 Sharps. I once had a problem with Jamison 43 Mauser brass and had to anneal it and then run it through my dies. Your cases might need annealing as well and it really doesn't hurt them if done right.

I'll send you a PM shortly.

Best Regards,

Marj
Marj ,
I tried sending you a PM about returning the Beaumont brass you tried forming for me. I appreciate the effort. Let me know what the shipping will be and I’ll send it to you. I may try to turn down the bases enough to see if it lets them chamber. That will be my problem to solve. You’ve already gone above and beyond in your efforts. Thanks. I look forward to hearing from you ASAP so I can send shipping.

Funny thing is, I saw a listing on gunbroker for the same number of 38 Bertram Beaumont cases, several being sized and formed and the rest the same straight drawn unformed cases like I sent you. I guess someone else figured out they don’t work as is. LOL.

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#4 Post by SWIHARTMARK » Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 pm

Yeah, Bertram Brass really didn't do its job on this. 43 Beaumont has never been a straight walled cartridge and never will be, but they did engrave the base/rim with "43 Beaumont" anyways. I've heard from another SRF member that he doesn't even accept Bertram Brass as a gift it is so bad. Sorry Bertram Brass, I couldn't get away with that at work, so neither should you.

Right now I have a similar problem turning .348 Winchester into 8mm by 60R for a Kropatchek. It too doesn't chamber and my layout die says its either the neck shoulder or the base diameter or both. Right now this problem has risen to being a personal vendetta as the RCBS dies didn't form the brass as I thought I would. I'm close to ordering some Buffalo Arms reformed brass just to see what they used so I will too. Of course, different lots of brass might have different diameters and it doesn't take much not to chamber. On the bright side, given a dead blow hammer I have managed to get them to chamber whacking the bolt with moderate but not severe force. Still not happy with that really.

I'll check out shipping for the brass via USPS and drop by tomorrow after work. Right now I'm busy learning a new computerized lathe from scratch as well as a wire burn machine. Things you do in a small machine shop that you can't or don't do elsewhere. I think I want to start running grinders next (nothing beats dealing with dimensions under .001"). I'm stressed out and then some lately. Nothing beats a poorly written manual, a poorly laid out control panel, and basically learning a new style of lathe for the first time and trying not to crash the machine at the same time.

I truly wished those cases just needed a simple anneal job and a run through my press. Bertram also missed the length of the case by almost 1". Somebody wake those guys up and smack them around. Take Care.

Best Regards,

Mark

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#5 Post by KneverKnew » Thu May 02, 2019 9:28 pm

I understand being stressed. Just let me know the shipping back and I can drop a check in the mail if that works for you. Just let me know. And thanks again.

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#6 Post by KneverKnew » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:03 pm

I received the brass back this past week. Than you.

The cases did need 1” trimmed from them and After some study I decided to use my drill with a taped dowel to hold and spin the cases as a makeshift lathe. Using various files and sand papers I reduced the head dimension down from the .587” oversized diameter down to the appropriate .576”. After that I was able to
Properly form the cases in the die.
22FDBB3C-71F9-4A69-B194-08E292B60F81.jpeg
Lathe
02AA99C4-73F6-4090-8BD7-E7FC2F1A51E8.jpeg
Filing
06A891E3-EC7C-4C12-ADDD-144E2166745E.jpeg
Sanding
932220FC-E881-4CBB-96A7-28AE23FE9A25.jpeg
Ready to size
839567FD-2642-4BC4-8C94-9541E9E06A3D.jpeg
Sized

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#7 Post by KneverKnew » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:30 pm

Once I got twenty cases processed and sized over three days, I went ahead and loaded five and shot at 100 yards.
All went well.
3D48DFAA-68CC-4016-8B3B-8B2C5CBF223D.jpeg
1A1CF60E-1BEC-490C-A7D0-13C9919C1861.jpeg

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#8 Post by Enfield Shooter » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:03 pm

Very nice shooting. That's a lot of work though. Makes me happy I went with trimming and sizing 50-90 Sharps to get mine. Now I need to get my lazy butt out to the range and shoot some of them.
David
"We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat; they do not exist"
Victoria 1899

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#9 Post by KneverKnew » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:26 am

I also did the 50/90’s and they work just fine and as you already know, processing is much easier.
I just came across
These Bertram cases on GB and thought how hard can it be? Yikes!! I found out. But once done, the work just fine. Doubt I’ll buy any more
Though. 😂

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Re: Forming and sizing Bertram 43 Beaumont brass

#10 Post by KneverKnew » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:31 am

Does anyone know how strong the Bertram brass is compared to 5090 sharps cases that most of us used to convert to 43 Beaumont? Just wondering if I can shoot warmer loads safely in the Bertram brass? I’m talking 400 grain lead bullets at around 1500 feet a second. Also has anyone tried shooting some of the many jacketed 458 diameter bullets that are available on the market? I’m thinking in the lines of the Hornady 325 grain FTX bullets that are so good for hunting? With the old metallurgy of these rifles I’m very skeptical but thought I would ask the question anyway.

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