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M1carbine problems

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Mashuga
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M1carbine problems

#1 Post by Mashuga » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:39 am

Here are the symptoms:
I will load a round from the mag into the chamber and that fires fine. The gun will cycle; ejecting the spent casing and loading a new round. It won't fire. It's as if the hammer hasn't reset. Pull the trigger and no clicky...nothing! If I pull the handle half way back and let it go it will then fire when the trigger is pulled. It then does as described above. It will eject the spent round and cycle a new one into the chamber but not fire. Pull the handle part way back and it will then fire again.

Any ideas as to what the problem may be? BTW, I've run several different types of ammo through it and it does the same with everything. I do have another carbine and plan on changing out the trigger group as a start on trouble shooting but it may be a week or so before I can get back to the range.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#2 Post by Rapidrob » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:56 pm

Yes,
One: Check to see if the gas pistol is fouled. Aim the action towards the ceiling,will the piston fall towards the floor by its self? If not remove the lock ring ( special tool needed to prevent damage) and clean the piston and gas cylinder in Brake Cleaner to remove the carbon fouling. Do not lube! It must be as dry as a pop-corn phart to work.
Two: If the piston is free, is the gas piston lock ring tight? A loose lock ring is a common problem venting gas.
Three: Is the recoil spring too strong?
Four: Who's ammo are you using?
Lastly, who made the Carbine?
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Re: M1carbine problems

#3 Post by Mashuga » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Rapidrob wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:56 pm
Yes,
One: Check to see if the gas pistol is fouled. Aim the action towards the ceiling,will the piston fall towards the floor by its self? If not remove the lock ring ( special tool needed to prevent damage) and clean the piston and gas cylinder in Brake Cleaner to remove the carbon fouling. Do not lube! It must be as dry as a pop-corn phart to work.
Two: If the piston is free, is the gas piston lock ring tight? A loose lock ring is a common problem venting gas.
Three: Is the recoil spring too strong?
Four: Who's ammo are you using?
Lastly, who made the Carbine?
Thanks for the reply Rob. I tried to respond yesterday but I've been having net connectivity issues.

1. The piston is o.k. It moves freely in and out with just it's own weight and gravity.
2. The lock ring seems o.k. too.
3. I put a new spring in a year or so ago as it was doing it then too so, I don't think it's the spring.
4. The ammo I tried this past week was F.C., Magtech and some old LC. I think I ran some Remington in the past also. Results were as described above with all ammo tried.

The carbine is a milsurp frankenbine. It's a Standard Products receiver, Underwood barrel and a lot of Inland parts.

It works fine when I manually cycle a round into the chamber. The only thing it won't do is set the trigger. Something in the trigger group?

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Re: M1carbine problems

#4 Post by Rapidrob » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:52 pm

Check the sear spring. Try holding the trigger forward as you cock the bolt. Does it catch?
How far does the brass eject?
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Re: M1carbine problems

#5 Post by M14man » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:35 pm

Disconnector problem (sear position issue), when you fire the gun and it cycles; the trigger is actually back, in the rearward position.At that point the sear is supposed to catch the hammer notch and hold the hammer back. The sear is not working properly due to it's position and the hammer follows the bolt home. When you pull it back by hand, you are OFF the trigger. The sear then catches the hammer notch.The sear actually slides to and fro, the reason for the obligated hole in the sear. You Tube has movies that show the functioning of the M! carb trigger mechanism in action.
Last edited by M14man on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#6 Post by M14man » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:48 pm

Here is the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dizArLleY3I
Watch 1:35 or so, then again
about 6:45. You may have a bad spring that rests between trigger and sear.
That is your problem.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#7 Post by Rapidrob » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:05 am

What I was getting at was if you hold the trigger forward you can feel it engage or not.
Remove the spring and stretch it a little. If it is better the spring is weak.Replace it.
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Re: M1carbine problems

#8 Post by Mashuga » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:51 pm

Gentlemen, thanks for the replies. First, when I got back from the range this past week I took the rifle down and also disassembled the trigger group and put it all back together. Nothing jumped out at me as not looking right but then, I'm not a gunsmith nor very bright.

Rob, it all looks and feels right. I took the stock off and worked the action while fiddling with the trigger and the sear catches every time.
M14man, thanks for the video. Interesting and informative. It looks as if you both are thinking it's the sear spring or related to the sear.

I think what I'll do is take this carbine and one of the others out to the range, hopefully this week. I'll try them both and if this one is still not right I'll swap the trigger groups out and try them both again. If that solves the problem I'll replace the sear spring and see if that fixes it. I'll have to wait till I'm home to replace the spring as it's an outdoor range and I seem to drop parts or have them shoot out of my hand.

Thanks again for the discussion and I'll post my results. Any ideas are welcome.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#9 Post by heck » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:22 am

I picked up an Inland a few weeks ago that would do the same thing. I examined it and discovered that it needed a good cleaning and oil. The bolt was not fully closing after firing so it would not fire the second round out of magazine. Cleaning and oil made it run just fine. Might not be your problem but it was my carbine's problem

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Re: M1carbine problems

#10 Post by M14man » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:55 am

any update?

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Re: M1carbine problems

#11 Post by Mashuga » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:37 pm

I just got back from the range. I was hoping to get out sooner but life got in the way.
I took the problem carbine and also a carbine that functions fine. I tested them both and the problem one did the same as before. It will fire the first round, eject the spent casing, strip and load a new round from the mag but the trigger won't reset. If I pull the bolt about half way back it will then fire, eject and load but that's it.
I swapped out the FCG's of 2 carbines and it's what I was expecting/hoping. The problem is in the FCG as the faulty one does the same thing in the other carbine. When I put the no problem FCG in the carbine with the problem it works fine. I hope I explained that well enough.
I tested it several times with the same results. That's all I did today as 1) it's an outdoor range and I didn't want to take the FCG's apart to swap internals and 2) it was about as hot as the hub of heck, or, what I imagine it would be like. I should probably mention that after my prior range outing I took the carbine apart and cleaned/checked everything. I took the FCG apart and cleaned it also. I didn't see anything obvious but I'm by no means an expert on this.
I think my next step is to replace the sear spring and see if that solves the problem. I don't know when I'll get the chance to test it as some other things are taking up my time. I will update when I get the chance.
On a side note, there were 2 young college guys at the range. They had a variety of milsurps (K31, 91/30 and a couple others). I told them about our forum which they didn't know about and it sounds like we'll have some new members signing up.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#12 Post by M14man » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:09 pm

Good, I feel it is the sear spring, maybe the sear pin....

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Re: M1carbine problems

#13 Post by Norskamerikaner » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:09 pm

Sorry for the brief off-topic, but thank you for guiding me over here, Mashuga, and thanks as well for letting us fire your M1 at the range this morning! My buddy doesn't know too much about milsurp firearms, but he always thinks it's neat to shoot with them.
I hope you're able to further isolate the problem from the FCG. From what you've said so far, I think it sounds like an issue with the sear as well.

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Re: M1carbine problems

#14 Post by Rapidrob » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:42 pm

Glad you found the problem. It all makes sense now.
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Re: M1carbine problems

#15 Post by rickplayer » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:26 pm

I would think an easy fx would be to replace all the springs. They are easy to obtain and certainly won't hurt to be replaced.

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