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Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

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KneverKnew
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Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#1 Post by KneverKnew » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:38 am

I really like my Beaumont. It’s my first. I wanted a good
Shooter and I think I got one. But,the collectibility has been shot since the previous owner sanded and finished the stock in what looks like a ployeuothane jell stain. I know the carouches can’t be brought back but I would at least like to strip the wood and refinish using linseed oil or ting oil to approximate the original finish. I’ve done this with great success on other milsurps. Does anyone have literature or just a good idea what the Dutch used as the original wood finish on these rifles? I can go for a
Medium dark walnut color with a little red mohogony mixed in. Ideas please!

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:39 pm

I do not own one and you will never replicate an old finish unless you buy a rifle for its stock. If I remember correct they kind of had the old dark walnut finish. Go to the wood refinishing section and see some ideas. You may want to try some of Brownells Chestnut Ridge Military Stock stain (alcohol based)--chestnut brown? If it has great metal buy a dog for its stock and switch them out.
Screen Shot 2019-04-08 at 8.37.18 PM.png
See some nice wood color close up views here at Libertytreecollector reference library: https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... oduct=9684


see this section:http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=61

My choice word be start a dark US military stain like Brownells Chestnut brown then mess with Fiebings alcohol dye as a rub with Toms 1/3 wax times 3 0r 4 times. See http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewto ... =61&t=2931 and http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewto ... f=61&t=375 and Beaumont repair and stain: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewto ... =61&t=1224
from above link
Stupid me forgot to take any pictures of the stripping and finishing process. After stripping the entire stock, I steamed the dents, made 2 last repairs, filled in the seam of the repair with my dyed resin, cleaned all my repair work up, gave the stock a light sanding to even it out as well as smooth the grain out, stained the stock with Chestnut Ridge Military Stock stain (alcohol based), let it dry 24 hours, buffed very well with 0000 superfine steel wool, and gave it 3 hand rubbed coats of pure tung oil, 24 hours between coats, and 3 days dry time on the last coat before hand rubbing in a good coat of Johnsons paste wax, let that dry 1 day, and buff it off very well.

Ideas & results see http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=70483
http://thecmp.org/training-tech/armorer ... rticle/#64
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=69268

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/sho ... p?t=604618
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#3 Post by KneverKnew » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:29 am

Buying a “dog” and swapping stocks did cross my mind but I’d have to find one with the stock stamps for 1874, when my gun was made. I’ll keep my eyes open. But I will probably use brownells military stock stain as suggested.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#4 Post by KneverKnew » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:06 am

Apparently brownells doesn’t Cary the Chestnut Ridge dark walnut “with a hint of red” stain anymore. But Chestnut Ridge’s website has the quart for $45. How many stocks with this do? Or should I get the smaller 8oz. Bottle?

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#5 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:11 am

Search out the small bottle. If not, you can mix your own stain color with the dye from Fiebings shoe alcohol dye at most horse tack or shoe repair stores. here is a small bottle:
https://www.chestnutridge.com/products/misc.asp

Lots of colors for mixing in 4 oz. bottles, but cost is $6-7 per bottle. So a small bottle of Chestnut might be a better base.
https://www.fiebing.com/catalogue/dyes/
Fiebing's Dark Brown produces a more lightly reddish dark brown look like a dark Mosin, Mauser or M1, or use a Fiebing's Medium Brown alcohol leather dye that produces a more brownish look lacking a red. Buy both and try them on a seperate piece of wood and see what you like. You may have to mix the two in order to obtain a match to the original color. You will also need black for a drop to enrich mixed colors . There are many different shades of browns see the Fiebings link. I generally get by on military stocks with 4-6 bottles Black, Dk Brown, Med Brown, are a must others : Chocolate Brown and light brown. More colors are needed if you mess with furniture. The Key is always to wipe on a small amount with a rag carefully controlling the amount of color applied and only slighhtly staining the wood--do not paint it on.



You did see Candyman's rub: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewto ... f=61&t=101
Last edited by 72 usmc on Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#6 Post by KneverKnew » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 am

I found chestnut ridges website and stain. Will order the small bottle for now. May get a bottle of dark walnut of feiblings to reduce the red a bit. Am I correct that I apply feiblings first and then Chestnut Ridge?

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#7 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:13 pm

I would test the colors on a piece of walnut or oak wood and see what you end up with color wise and what you want. Then test coat a well rubber surface with what ever you coat the wood- Toms 1/3 mix , floor wax, tung oil, minimax neutral stain, shellac?????? Wet and dry are two different worlds. Colors change if the wood is burnished or revarnished with BLO, tung, or just a rub of minwax natural stain over dried strain rub to enhance the color. So do some tests with color then covering agents.
I like wood that does not have a thick finish, more of a natural well rubbed wood where wax has been applied 4 or 5 times and rubbed into the wood pores. Some like a thicker BLO application? Miniwax neutral stain with a light rub brings out color and lightly seals the wood, then this is gone over with high quality floor paste wax or Museum Wax. I still like Toms 1/3 wax. So there are many different ways to apply. I generally like my wood to appear like it needs a finish. After a restoration I want someone to say " I see its an old stock that can be improved by a refinish. " remember you may want an uneven application to mimic hand use and wear on certain portions of the stock. I despise an even color application, steamed out dents, and a uniform thick poly covering on a surplus rifle. I generally just do matching in repairs- but no one should be able to tell where the repair occurred. In my mind, the worse thing a person can do is refinish a surplus rifle in good condition.

So, First You have to remove the poly, if that is what it is ? How deep did it soak into the wood? You could apply a stain and see high gloss spots where the poly is still in the wood. First, figure out what the coating is, and what will remove it. The more rubbing on the wood, the more it will get a used smooth look. Some color will stay after the varnish/poly removal. Both the dye and the Chestnut will act similar, but will produce different results on different surfaces and different woods. Test, test, test, time is your buddy. Do not rush. Chestnut stain is always useful on military stocks get a small bottle. The shoe dye is at most local stores- just use Fiebings & not water based dye. Heck, you may like just using the Chestnut military stain. Later after it has dried for a week, Give it a rub/polish. Do you like the dry color? No, then use more brown , blackish brown, or red brown shoe dye to get a better tone. This is only the slightest amount on a tee shirt rag and it is rubbed in a tad. Not a heavy wash or painted on application. You are applying different zones of color to enrich the wood. Some areas may need color, some may not. So get the military stain and go from there. I have no idea what that stock color should be on an intact Beaumont rifle. I figure you want it to look similar to a Mauser, Krag or Springfield o3. That Chestnut military stain is a nice base color to start with. Apply it first then tint with rub ins on the stock or . And this is a big OR Wet mix a color you like using either or as a base, get the desired color you like-both wet and dry. Then apply this as a rub onto the stock. Remember this color was mixed, tested on a sample piece of wood, dried, coated with the stain you want, finished the way you want and you like the result. THEN US IT ON THE STOCK
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#8 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:40 pm

Your nightly reading background library on finishes:

Welcome to the School of Woodworking Knowledge.


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... p?t=520722
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#9 Post by KneverKnew » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Thank you

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#10 Post by KneverKnew » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:44 pm

So much info but I appreciate it.
Here’s what the rifle looks like currently.
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#11 Post by les1234 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Buying a "dog" Beaumont for it's stock might be easier said than done. Many have cracks around the magazine cutout area, converting them to a repeater left the stock weak in that spot.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#12 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:36 am

It looks like a sprayed on finish. For removal? Test a little spot and see what works. Try denatured alcohol, lacquer thinner, acetone. Old boy methods: Formbys or Watco furniture refinisher, or USGI insect (Nam) repellent 100% deet ...melts plastics, & do not forget break cleaner or carb cleaner. Next, safe Orange citristrip gel or cream paint remover, or lastly more serious stuff like marine grade paint remover. Maybe Blue Bear urethane striper, finally the nasty methylene chloride last resort stuff like Kleenstrip or Jascol can also be used. I never use heat or oven cleaner. Messes with the wood. Use rags/or a used soft green scrubie to rub it off. Base color looks ok to cover with Chestnut military stain. The existing color most likely will stay in the wood.
If you want to get nuts you can try toluol or xylol or a sure thing is stuff like "2 minute remover" but the wood surface has to be wiped down to neutralize the goo with some chemicals. Best to go slow and safe. See what works. Try not to sand the wood if possible. Lots of rubbing should get you down to the wood so you can then rub in some Chestnut military stain and accent with shoe dye wipes if needed. What a nice stock , I just do not understand why someone refinished it. I take it you want it a darker redbrown or brown. I believe the Chestnut military stain will serve your needs or try the the dark or medium brown Fiebrings shoe dyes depending on the color you desire if short on cash. They can be mixed. It should turn out fine with just a stain rub and then wax rub down a few times. Avoid the plastic finish looks. Go for a rubbed wood look like on old stocks or furniture. This would be a great how to do it post if you take lots of photos as you progress.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#13 Post by KneverKnew » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:23 am

What a great help! Thanks for the info. I ordered a quart of the military stock stain. Shipping was $11 for the 8oz bottle and $15 for the quart. Should last me a good long time. Is the feiblings shoe die a past? I’m thinking a darker red brown as you mentioned. The look you get from well aged and oxidized linseed oil. I’d like it to look as “original” as possible. Yes it is a shame someone sanded the cartouche off. I was looking for a good shooter in the first place and think I did well in that respect. Despite the refinished stock, the condition of the rifle is very nice for the age. I did have to purchase an ejector block as it was missing.

You say the color should stay even with stripping. I’ve used citrusstrip with good results in the past but found it did remove some color. I have most of the stripping options you mentioned so will start slow and see what happens. I’ll take good pictures for posting. Should I just add the pictures here or create a fresh post for a how too?
Thanks again for the help.

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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#14 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:42 am

Is the feiblings shoe die a past? I’m thinking a darker red brown as you mentioned.
made in Milwaukee WI for 100 or more years see https://www.fiebing.com
It is not a thing of the past, it is still in production. Just that it is a high quality dye, sold at leather, shoe, horse & farm stores. The color with a slight red brown is the "dark brown". It is not a red brown like a Mosin rifle Russian shellac, but more like an aged M1 stock. I am thinking you will really like the Chestnut brown military stain, just that you have enough to trade or sell to friends and last 100years. A little dab will do you. You can create a new post over in the stock finishing section or use this one. more might see it in the stock refinishing section. You can always link back to this old post. It will be interesting to see if the spray comes off easy and with what. Postage is always nuts, I got a $1.95 Tok part from Apex and basic shipping was $7 :doh:
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?

#15 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:48 am

Give this a thought Toms1/3 :shock: http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=129525
Some like Renaissance museum wax, we use it on metal not so much wood, (Staples clear or orange on wood) or you can make your own old fashion soft gun stock wax with equal parts of linseed oil, bees wax, and gum turpentine- heat on an electric stove to melt then mix & stir- no open flame -let solidify and you got an old time gun/furrniture wax for rubbing into natural wood. It will remove some of the dye and you can rub it in and produce a hand held wear pattern at specific grip spots on the stock so it does not have that uniform strained look, rather it has a well used look. To just protect a finish, I use staples bowling alley wood wax. To produce wear patterns and remove some of the strain during the hand rubbed finish, I use the mix. It is similar to Toms- just apply the slight wipe of dye, let it dry, rub it down, see if you like the color or need to add more dye wipes-- or if you got what you want, then you can rub in the wax mix to get a nice patina to the finish. Toms is already made. No mess, but if you want more or less of one of the 3 ingredients- you got to mix your own wax. It is in old wood books and also called sometimes Gunnys paste( usmc on m14 stocks), farmers (farmer wax) used it on old tools and wood trunks and crates, wagon sides with more linseed oil. Look at turn of the century 1900-1920 wood working books.
see http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=2522

Secret :shhh: :shhh: On normal aged stocks I use Staples Antique orange paste wax, it holds up better in 100 degree weather. Also great on antique furniture. http://www.hfstaples.com/shop/antique-o ... -wax-1-lb/
http://www.hfstaples.com/shop/paste-wax/
From 1897 to today, Staples Wax takes no shortcuts. It contains no synthetics, silicones, or soft beeswax. Curators and professional floor care specialists count on Staples Wax not only for its rich beauty, but for its long lasting protection.

Staples Paste Wax is available in two colors to enhance the patina of any wood shade. Choose Crystal Clear for light colored woods, or Antique Orange for natural oak and darker finishes.
You got lots of choices, next favorite is BLO with an accelerator or the miniwwax neutral stain as a slight wipe to seal the dye color after given a good dry rub without wax, seal with the natural stain--just a wee bit. This will also slightly remove some of the dye color- you rub it in with an almost dry moist shirt. Then use nice even swipes and let it dry for a week. Then use staples orange wax after a good week of dry time. Try each method on old wood and see which one you like. This produces a natural wood finish not a varnish or shellac applied look. The wood will still grab in oil. You can always buy a garbage cracked stock at the next gun show to practice on prior to working on that nice stock. :idea:
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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