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SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

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OLDGUNNER
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#31 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:11 pm

Here is something that can be done by anyone, well if they live in the country so to speak. Just before my 6th birthday, my dad and I went to Sears and Roebuck and he bought me a single shot .22, for 3.95, and for the next year maybe gave me a box of shorts most every evening, typically, after he came home from work, to shoot up before dark. They were at the time, 10 cents a box. Now-a-days, I realize that this would not normally be done....’by others’. And I did the same with my son and daughter. I would look forward to squirrel, Fox Squirrel, and rabbit season every year. Around here they only have the Abert’s squirrels and they are so pretty and down right friendly, I couldn’t bring myself to shoot one. They will cautiously approach me, and after maybe 10 or 15 minutes come within 20 feet or so just to be friendly. Just me again, but I don’t see how anyone could just shoot one. When we first moved here 24 years ago I bought a hunting license and shot a deer and an elk with my Black Powder rifle and I haven’t bought a hunting license since. Just this morning a couple of doe came within 20 feet of the back door looking for our dog. Our dog and the deer have a special rapport with each other. When the dog sees some deer out of a window, she will wine and want out. I think it might be some kind of mental telepathy, the dog can be asleep on the floor and know when a deer comes by. And I am convinced that the deer communicate with each other with out making a sound, at least without something that I can hear. I have made more than a dozen deer calls and have never been able to fool one. And by the way, the dog knows that the Abert's are friendly and not chase them.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ab ... 3B846E8ED7

Anyway---accuracy, just shoot a lot.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#32 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:36 pm

The attachment DSC_0062-001.JPG is no longer available
Here is a Bubba job that I did on a 14.95 7.35 Carcano 60 years ago and I am not ashamed of it one bit. And I couldn’t ask for any better accuracy. For the life of me how some people will just expect some kind of automatic accuracy out of any rifle. It’s mind boggling. Rifles don’t come that way.
DSC_0062-001.JPG
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#33 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:48 pm

DSC_0014.JPG
Here is the attachment that is no longer available – I know it must be my fault.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#34 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:25 pm

I would like to say....I can not, I will not, allow myself to be led astray or influenced by 99% of any of the YouTubes on these Carcanos. Right or wrong, I will just attribute them to someone that says, “Hey, I just got a Carcano, I’ll make a YouTube to let everyone know all about them – maybe not that bad. Okay, they are allowed to do that. I realize that some may be just saying, “This is just what I have found out.” That’s okay.

But I think more often than not, most thoughts are more like, ‘So many people are saying these Carcanos have bad accuracy, so I should just believe them and not bother to find out for myself’. And I believe most of this is because most do not bother to find the best load for ‘their’ Carcano, as anyone could or should for any rifle.

And I will say what I have found out. This is, because I am allowed to have my own thoughts. In some cases, or maybe more than, these can be shot just as accurately as a 1903, especially at 100 yards. Did Carcano copy anyone’s Mauser like action, I don’t think so. And I think a very. VERY good feature is their fixed sights...don’t teach anyone how to fiddle with a rear sight. Just some simple practice at various ranges will suffice for the Carcanos. That is why my dad told me to never mess with a rear sight. I understand the reason for the adjustable rear sights on say the 1903. It is because it may be quicker for the unfamiliar to learn to shoot at longer ranges. Yes, I think that the 200 meter rear sight design was just fine. But I did use a hack saw to adjust it to 100 yards. I didn’t have some good Swiss files at the time.
About the only thing that I didn’t like was that they would not shoot single rounds and I never wanted to take the chance of ruining the bolt to try to modify the bolts to do so. Now I think that I could probable do it, but I’m not going to bother.

Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticken to it.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#35 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:21 pm

Just the other day on another forum I saw where some guy said that he has lapped all of his barrels and never had one where lapping didn’t increase the accuracy,. This implied to me that the lapping was the only thing that he did to get this accuracy increase. Unless he had only one or two barrels ‘and’ by chance this happened, I don’t believe one bit of it. I of course very much so believe that lapping will help the typical unlapped barrel, but...one should usually have to come up with a different load to ‘increase’ the accuracy. YouTubes and stories like this to me make such stories hard to believe.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#36 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:44 pm

I’LL TELL YOU WHAT----Yesterday I compared a 5 dollar 4 power Monoscope with a 189 $ 3-9 Redfield set at 4 power at about 75 feet looking at a magazine, I sure could see that the Monoscope was more clear. I have always thought that the extra optics in a variable scope would be harder to deal with. Of course I don’t have a Zeiss or Leopold to look through.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#37 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:22 pm

DSC_0019.JPG
Here are some of my unmounted scopes – I know, my wife says the same thing.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#38 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:07 pm

I just saw on TV – Someone is being accused of fraudulent book keeping in Washington – oh my gosh! I recall one time we had a visit from a Pentagon accountant and his opening statement was, “I am an accountant. I do the books. I make the books come out like the boss wants them to come out.” I guess that there are some that don’t think that this is right.

As a kid I remember an article where the definition for politics in a dictionary was, “The dirty side of government.” I guess the politicians didn’t like that.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#39 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:06 pm

Here is something that some may not have been familiar with or heard of. The Hague Convention of 1899 dealt with some war issues, two of which was the use of poisonous gas and certain types of bullets in war. I just reread some things to help get things straight. Now I realize that these articles are written by ‘people’, and one can read all kinds of ‘Bum Dope’, but I think that this is generally true, okay.

I have been under the impression that the US ‘did not’, sign or ratify the Hague Convention of 1899 because they didn’t want to be restricted by some of the provisions where all of the other major powers at the time, did sign it. This directly affected the design of the Carcano 7.35 bullet and caused the Italians, I don’t know who of course, but I will assume that it was okayed by Mussolini to have the aluminum insert put into the their military 7.35 cartridge. I have no knowledge of their 6.5 Carcano cartridge – I have never dealt with one. This allowed them to make the cartridge without violating the part of the Hague convention, ‘Prohibition of the use of a bullet which can easily expand or change their form inside a human body...’ Such as no Hollow Points. The aluminum just caused the bullet to be unstable, not change form. We know that they didn’t get into popular usage and cause bad things to happen. But I say, who ever designed that bullet, did a go job. But this off-sets the military idea that it takes soldiers out of action to carry the wounded off the battle field . And we know that a Hollow Point bullet will definitely do more damage and be more likely to kill than just wound. My friend that was in the European part of WW2, told me that the German snipers that were left behind as their major forces retreated were specifically instructed to shoot the US GI’s and allies in the legs and not the body for this reason. Can you imagine what the snipers that were left behind at those times were thinking? I’ll bet it was something that could have been translated into something like, “Oh, crap.”

Okay, fast forward to 1967. I was a DoD contract employee and volunteered of course, to go to Vietnam and was assigned to Marine, H & MS-17. And what do I find, some marines were using Hollow Point bullets in their M-14’s. I understood that Robert McNamara and his ’boss’ had approved this through a loophole. Yes, the loophole was that the US had not ratified the Hague Convention of 1899 and they were using the bullets that were sent there to be used by Marine Snipers. Now why someone thought that it was okay to use them at all, I assume the reason was that they were known to be more accurate at a longer range. I just read that these were first introduced in 1963 as the US Military cartridge, M118LR, as described in the link below under ‘Military Cartridge types’. I have some around here some place...they are called a ‘’Match” bullet as we know of them today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9751mm_NATO
Last edited by OLDGUNNER on Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#40 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:02 am

FWTW - You may have seen shooting exhibitions where aerial targets are shot that may make one think that the person has sure put in a lot practice...which may not necessarily be true. Actually it is easier to do this than acquire a regular skill of normal shooting accuracy of stationary targets and a whole lot cheaper. It can be called a trick–shot. And a book that explains it all is, “INSTINCT SHOOTING”, by Luck McDaniel. I first came across this book by accident. Probable one’s local library won’t have it but, the “Interlibrary loan Program” will usually find the book somewhere in the country and it can be sent to your local library for one to just loan as normally loaned. I have done it a few times and have never had it fail, and I don’t recall any fees. I see in the Wikipedia link where they may be fees but I think this is for coping service and the like – it doesn’t cost anything to check.

The Interlibrary loan program - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlibrary_loan

By the way, I did it with my son and I took the sights off of a brand new BB gun. In retrospect, I would have not taken the sights off. like when one gets to the .22 part, this is not done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_McDaniel A long read.

https://books.google.com/books/about/In ... LwAAAAMAAJ

And a new revised version, which I don’t know about but should be close.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#41 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:14 pm

https://www.expedia.com/Cabot-Tower-Qui ... Attraction

I just came across this – I always thought that it was pretty around here. About a quarter of a mile behind where the person was standing when they took this picture I worked in 1953 at a US Radio Transmitter site as a radio maintenance guy. It was part of a radio relay system from Andrews AFB to here, then to the Azores and then on to Europe. We had five other transmitters with antennas pointing toward Greenland and Iceland.
Just off to the left in the picture is the most eastern part of North America.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#42 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:08 pm

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Sp ... ORM=VRDGAR

Have any of you guys talked with the ISS, International Space Station? I have a Ham license and radio but haven’t done it. When it goes over just a 5 watt radio is all one needs. I paid over 400 dollars for mine but now they are much cheaper. With all of the relay stations, I can talk with anyone around the world with just the ‘Hand-held’ radio. And in case one may not know it, now one can get their Ham license ‘without’ the code requirement --- at least in the US.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#43 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:32 pm

https://www.amazon.com/handheld-ham-rad ... am%20radio

Oh my gosh, look what one can get for 25 dollars. And the super 8 Watt for 63. That is a lot a technology for the price. One can overcome a lot of ‘dead spots’ with their cell phones with these. Just for person-to-person use only of course.
******************************************************
I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that for a good one these YAESU radios would be a lot better. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-015655
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#44 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:59 pm

Cost of M1’s at today’s prices....I get.

http://guncollectionsonline.com/m1garand.htm

One price given...$85, Lets say 1943 was half way through the main production. So, inflation since than...........https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/i ... &year=1940 putting in 1943 date.

This is just one input...I didn’t bother to look for others...$85 X 14.59 = 1240.15, (1943) I get.....So into todays dollars this gives $1240.15...again if....
And using this calculator for 1940, I would get $85 X 17.61 = $1496.85. In 1940 a factory worker was making $1 an hour and in 1943, maybe 1.50. What now, $28? So, average man-hours cost with over heard and profit could be $3, $85 divided by 3 could be 28.33 man-hours per M1. Now how many man-hours would be required today to make an M1...much less...could it be 28.33 hours divided by 3 which would be 9.44 man-hours? This could be reasonable, maybe, sounds okay to me?

So if I did this somewhat close, those made in 1940 would have cost $1496.85 in today’s dollars and and those made in 1943 would have cost $1240.15 in today’s dollars. I should be able to find the actual contract price per rifle batch at the time and come closer to this 85 $ figure. And if my estimations are no good, just forget all of this.

My dad bought a new 6 cylinder Oldsmobile in the fall of 1940 for 980 dollars, I remember seeing the receipt. This comes out to 980 work-hours to purchase. Now at 30,000 for a comparable vehicle at $28 per hour, this comes out to 1071 work-hours to purchase. I see this as very, close, but we know that Automobile prices follow the average factory hourly wage....or vice versa, either way.

But anyway, this shouldn't affect any kind of selling price at this time, unless a chosen mathematician 'with instructions' is given the calculator.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#45 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:42 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand

Todays Dollars:

M1’s...Okay, in this link, I find in, “Production History”, I see, ‘Unit cost (about) $85, and $1200 in 2016 dollars.” This just sounds close enough to me with my estimations that I will not check any more....okay.
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