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SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

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OLDGUNNER
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#16 Post by OLDGUNNER » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:50 pm

Oh – I forgot---- Make a simple case induction annealer just using a car battery. You will just have to keep recharging it of course. Or...get a good deal on a used car battery ‘Fast Charger’ and keep it on the battery. One shouldn’t have to do too many at a time anyway.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=di ... &FORM=IGRE
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#17 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:32 pm

Please realize that I am not saying that all Military and Sporting rifles can necessarily achieve ultimate accuracies. One of the things that I understand about these things is that the chamber clearance between the bullet and the chamber is typically more on these than a so-called match or target chamber. For example with a .308 bullet the clearance may be 5 or 10 thousands more allowing the the bullet to get cocked as it is fired and goes down the barrel whereby a match chamber may only allow 2 or 3 thousands clearance or whatever. And with .22 Rim Fire chambers, it is the same thing. With a match chamber it may be a zero clearance between your target ammunition and your chamber and with a sporting chamber this will usually be more open . And then of course the match chambers will vary to fit the brass length.

When I bought my Ruger .22 Target Pistol I found out that it wouldn’t take certain type .22 ammo. I went to the Ruger factory in Prescott, Arizona and talked to the shop Forman that made them and he told me that these were made with a tight chamber, their tight chamber, to no other standards. And I would have to find the particular .22 ammo that it would take. But he could take it right then back in his shop and open the chamber to where it would take any .22 ammo. And I said oh no, it shoots so good we will not touch the chamber.

Yes, with the typical military and sporting rifle one may not get that good accuracy as that of a target rifle barrel but with good diligence on reloading they may get close....in my opinion.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#18 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:58 am

I am sorry when I said 5 or 10 thousands clearance for a .308 chamber above...oh no, not that much, maybe 3 or so...of course I don't know really how much they vary. But in general it should cover the variable sizes of different bullets.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#19 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:09 pm

IN PASSING – I wonder if one can copper plate a given bullet with enough precision to build it up to fit a particular chamber for better accuracy? And I don’t know if powder coating is hard enough to do the same thing. I have zero experience with powder coating of bullets. I have made a copper plating device to plate regular cast bullets but that is all and it so simple to not be able to plate with any kind of uniformity. Also I have no experience with paper patching. I wonder if this is used for this purpose with success.

Now that I think about it, why can’t a say .311 or the British .303 bullets be reformed down to fit ones .308 chamber properly? This may be a more simple approach. And maybe one can turn their military or any regular .308 barrel into a more target like barrel. Yes, and then make a stock out of regular 2 X 8 lumber and have a super cheap target rifle. I like those barrels made out of rebar with the barrels made of reliners epoxied in a piece of rebar. I think that that would be just too cool – make a rifle with the rebar barrel and 2 x 8 stock, with an old 5 dollar Monoscope epoxied to the barrel.

Here are two of the Monoscopes that I bought 62 years ago for 5 dollars each and have never mounted. One could be surprised at the optics clarity.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#20 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:48 pm

By the way, some may not have heard of rebar barrels. One may have to shop around to get a Match or Target chamber Reliner for one.


https://www.bing.com/search?q=rebar%20r ... 4A0B9873B8
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#21 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:43 pm

Oh heck, I just thought of what may be an easier way to this Match Barrel Chambering. Make your bullets to ‘match your chamber rather than the other way around’.

Use these cheap LEE Resizers. For example buy good regular bullets...lets say .311 for a .308 Military or Sporting rifle. Buy a LEE Resizer in .308 and burnish and lap it out to where the bullets will just fit your oversized chamber in your rifle. Trial and error...a little at a time until the bullet will just slip into your chamber. Basically one should have the most important part of a Match Chamber. I don’t know if this can be done easily with one time through a resizer or not but surely can be done with two steps. One may have to spring for a second Resizers with the first just doing half the job, I don’t know. One will be reducing the .311 bullet to less than the 0.003 inches. I Lapped the .285 LEE Resizer up for my Carcano 7.35 bullets and that LEE Resizer is ‘HARD’.

And, I don’t know just how these Military Surplus rifle shooting matches work. Is it ethical or legal to use oversized bullets to fit your chambers in these matches?
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#22 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:37 pm

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=re ... &FORM=VIRE

Okay, for anyone not familiar with bullet resizing, this guy says this will work as I assumed...one just has to burnish and lap the LEE Resizer Die to match ones needs. Walla....Match Bullet Chamber on the cheap...maybe.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#23 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:11 pm

A couple of things...has anyone bought a new LEE Bullet Mold and held it up to the light and ‘NOT’ been able to see light through it? I have not. I have always had to spend and hour at least, if I’m lucky, to fine tune them to close properly. I have not ever heard anyone saying that they bothered to fix these. But I have the same problem with the other Steel Molds also and find them much harder to fix...so, I am sticking with the LEE.

And a second thing, I just saw where a guy was saying that he found those LEE Resizer Dies hard to hone to a larger size, they are so hard. I’ll sure agree with that...but one guy was saying that ‘he’ found it easy to use Crocus Cloth to enlarge them. Well, I’ll try that by wrapping this around a tapered wooden dowel.

I understand why LEE doesn’t spend the time to fix his molds – It just would cost him too much so he just sells them cheap. He can’t have more than a few minutes manufacturing time in them. And if they are really bad, he sells them off as 'Seconds'. I have bought some of those, by mistake.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#24 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:53 pm

I just found this site, I don’t know if it is legit or not...A police property room auction site, it says, but I just Googled Monoscope and one showed up, 6 dollars, sold. A new one now shows up, sold for 4 dollars Plus some postage, but will watch it – may be interesting.

https://www.propertyroom.com/l/center-p ... ce=SIMILAR

Nah - forget it, that 'Police Property Room' thing is just a come-on. I wonder where they came up with that 60 year old Monoscope though.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#25 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:36 pm

FUN - FUN - FUN, Okay, here we go.....buy a barrel liner, with the standard sport bullet chamber...why they want so much for the Match Chamber, I don’t know. Have a local gunsmith drill a hole in a piece of rebar...epoxy the liner in your rebar. Buy a piece of 2 x 8 at your local lumber yard ...make your stock. Epoxy scope mounts on the barrel, put on a cheap Monoscope, screw it in to a receiver, buy a LEE Bullet Resizer, just smaller than needed, do the burnishing and lapping to get the oversized bullets down to just matching your Chamber in your reliner...reload to optimum accuracy....and dazzle them at the range. That to me would sound like fun.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#26 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:18 pm

I just watched the M1 video – Now I don’t want to be argumentive, not one little bit...but after I watched it I thought of two things, the first, the saying of Samuel Clemens, “Don’t’ believe anything that you read and only half of what you see.” And the other, when I was a kid and went to the circuses and ‘saw’ those Ariel Acrobats, I had to believe them, I was seeing them, but I knew that they were a special type of people, they had lots of practice. Did I think that most people could do those things, of course not. But his guy practiced well before he made the video, and appeared to be doing things, that I am not too sure that was not slight-of-hand...I don’t know for sure on that of course.

I have an M1, it could be called a museum grade, it is pretty, dated 1943. I have shot an M1, I think a lot more than the average person, now I repeat, the average. I just tried to do the things that this fellow did with the M1 and quickly realized that I would need some dedicated practice to do some of the things that he did. And...AND...I believe that the typical US GI soldier did ‘not’ learn to do some of these things, and therefor, could not. The guy made a nice video about the M1...do I believe everything that he said, of course not.

A case in point, about the ‘ping’ on the last shot of the clip, just because he pointed out the situation of the other background noise making this not believable, And other people quoting where some said that this also wasn’t true. I know that this is a favorite ploy of the news media where they tell only half of the story just to make their half more believable. And I believe that his guy, in a way, made a ‘one sided’ video about the M1. For someone that has never fired an M1, may just believe ever word that this guy said – I can’t help that one bit. Now don’t get me wrong, I think that the M1 was/is a great gun and many of enemy soldiers found this out doing WWII and the Korean conflict. It was General Patton that thought that the M1 won the war, even though he was a tank man. Every time I look at the M1, I marvel at how reliable it is, with all of those moving parts.

I mentioned my friend here, that recently passed away, that landed on Omaha Beach and crawled to Germany. He said that at one time he was under Patton and was known as, “Blood and guts”, Patton’s guts but their blood. Yes, as he pointed out, he was no hero. He didn’t stand up and say, “Come on men.” The heroes were all killed. Well I guess Audrey Murphy and some lucked out. There is a popular picture still on the web with him in it. As one can visualize the young Lieutenant can’t be seen crawling to stay down. He said that half the time his CO’s were killed so often that he didn’t even know their name. And still I think that Patton said, “A dead soldier on the battle field isn’t worth a damn.” And of course, the conspiracy thing about FDR having him killed. Like his story about his CO telling him to charge up a hill and take out a German machine gun nest. He said hell no, he wasn’t going to do that. He ‘crawled’ around them and shot them by surprise from behind with his M1, three of them. He survived the rest of the war, his CO was soon killed.

Okay, to the ‘Ping’ story...visualize this...In the famous Hurtgen Forest battle, which my friend said he crawled through..https://taskandpurpose.com/hurtgen-fore ... ld-war-ii/.
visualize this if you can, a US GI, all by himself, is shooing at a German soldier with his M1 and the German has his face in the mud as far as he can get it. The German hears this ‘ping’, jumps up and shoots this US GI while he is exposed or semi-exposed reloading, and didn’t duck down quick enough after his last shot. I CAN visualize this so clearly. As I am saying, beware of the reporter only giving half of the story. That ping can be pretty loud and telling. And a lot of all of the other people’s stories, I can dismiss. And if I was in the position, I would rather have the M1 than a bolt action of course. But you had better believe if it was me, I would be ducking so fast after that last round. Just my odd thoughts – I know, odd thoughts by the ‘odd-ball’.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#27 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:48 pm

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0

My friend was on the right, the 3rd row back, the skinny looking 19 year old kid just to the left about 45 degrees behind the second from the right. Now I believe what he said about that trip.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#28 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:00 pm

Just wait a minute – On this M1 video. His only points of his video are two things, the ‘ping’ and it can be loaded by ‘single-rounds’. I think that he is more of an actor rather than telling anyone anything new about the M1. You know what I think about the ‘Ping’, and then he makes a big deal about ‘He’ knows how to load with single rounds where he claims that no one else does, Well I say that anyone that knows anything about the M1, knows that his forte is more in acting rather than in the M1. Well sure, for someone, that knows nothing about the M1, he may sound impressive. In the heat of the battle, who in the heck would normally be bothering with loading single rounds, and look at 6:25, six minutes and 25 seconds into his video. He is using a ‘trick-clip’ for at least part of his BS video....in my opinion. Therefore...therefore, he hain’t fooling me. And I assume that anyone in battle would soon learn to forget any part of his video. Yes, there are some users of the M1 that have never gotten around to learning how to gracefully load the clip with the single rounds. I have probable tried it but don't recall doing it, in the clip. But I shall practice it. Again, just my opinion.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#29 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:07 pm

[attachment=1]102_0121-001.JPG[/

Here is my 210 yard black powder, load, and accuracy comparator in my back yard, when I don't want to bother with my chronograph.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#30 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:48 am

Rifle scopes are a fickle thing – I know when one looks through a Zeiss they think WOW. But you may paying a bunch of money for that WOW...you betcha they are nice. And I know it’s nice to have nice things. And if one is not worried about putting food on the table and want to, sure put one on every rifle you own – that would be NICE.

But for us that are more prudent they may want to look for something that will work and not just buy ‘by name’ which people do, whether they realize it or not, Read the book by Vance Packard, “The Hidden Persuaders.” Now reputation for reliability and warrantee, yes, maybe should be considered, but when one looks through a 1,500 dollar scope and sees what may be ‘seen’ as twice as good as a 50 dollar scope, and buys the 1,500 $ one, maybe ‘prudish’ has more to do with it than prudence. Prudish has more than one usage.

For example...for example, if one is given a half dozen scopes with their brand names taped over that retail for 50 to 1500 dollars and one is asked to look at them, play with them, adjust them, and then rate them in retail price, how well would you think that they would do? I know, it’s just me, but those 60 year old 5 $ Monoscopes come to mind. Agreed, if a Zeiss happens to be in that bunch, one should be able to pick that one out.
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