Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

NIGHT SCOPE

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OLDGUNNER
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NIGHT SCOPE

#1 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:39 pm

Okay – Does anyone here have any experience with these 3 and 4 thousand dollar night rifle scopes? I have never used one...all I have is one of these cheap hand-held Russian made type which I can just see a pair of eyes at 75 yards. I know that coyotes feel safer in running around at night.
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NIGHT SCOPE

#2 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:55 pm

This picture on the box lies, which of course is no big surprise.
Scan.BMP.jpg
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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#3 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:14 pm

Oh I can help you there.
The ones like you show are "Gen 0" ( Basically they "see" in infrared) which is why they all come with an illuminator, basically an infrared only flashlight.
They are WW2 German "Wampyr" level technology. Think of the Thrush carbines from the old "Man From Uncle" shows.
Since then they have gone to "gen 1" Image multiplier "starlight" scopes.
Gen 2 (better starlight's with added features that are designed to eliminate the problems ( blinding, streaking & so on) of the gen 1's.
Gen 3 (high end totally protected systems)
& now thermal or thermal & optical hybrids.
As each generation has improved so has the tube life, the amount of amplification & so on while size & weight have dropped tremendously.
As the features have increased so has the price.

I have a $99 gen 0 viewer which I keep in my crash kit. It doesn't need batteries so its good enough for that application. I'd say its about the difference between a bright moonlight night & an overcast moonless night. Its adequate, but won't do miracles.

I have a gen 1 wearable headset that I bought for work in a 100% blacked out photo lab.
It works well & has the advantage that it will work in absolutely zero light, something the intensifiers doesn't do well as there's nothing to amplify!
Outdoors I'd call it better than the $99 one, clearer, brighter & sharper. (Think a black & white TV set image) Price was about $350 when I bought it a few years back. Plus, being binoculars it has actual depth perception built in, something no single tube unit can do.You use to to get about, or manipulate things with it is not a "sight".

I acquired a European-made Gen 1 sight which mounts to the rifle & also functions as a scope. Its streets ahead of the other 2 but at a price. Its big,bulky, heavy & noisy. Now I don't know how sensitive to electronic whines coyotes are but it sounds like a camera strobe powering up. Its far, far better than the other 2. Its image quality is just good enough to determine & accurately identify something like a yote out to about 200 yds. Beyond that the coarseness of the screen image (pixels) aren't fine enough to render that kind of detail. You can get them still for about $6~700.oo.

Gen 2 & Gen 3 go even further in both price & image quality.

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#4 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:21 pm

It looks like I get one image per post, sorry, here goes.
Gen 0 binoculars.
DSCF8153.JPG

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#5 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:21 pm

Gen 1 scope:
DSCF5898.JPG

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#6 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:22 pm

Attached to .30 FAL:
DSCF5941.JPG

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#7 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Gen 1 reticule on 200 yd range. Look carefully & you can see the 8 1/2 X 11" paper falling from the backboard:
reticule 6.jpg

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#8 Post by OLDGUNNER » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Thanks Tommy – Okay I think your last picture would let me tell the difference between a coyote and a neighbor’s dog. I will assume that out to 200 yards would be good enough also.
There is no place around here that would be carrying any in stock and I would want to ‘look-see’ before I buy. Which means driving 250 to 300 miles to see one...which I could do, no problem. I would just try to get as much done by phone as I could before going anywhere. And I’ll start reading as much as I can find.
Now that Olive-Green scope is giving your last picture image – the greenish image, right. So if you don’t mind, could you please give me the make and model of that one? This should give me a starting place.
Last night my wife said that she thought the coyotes were less than 100 or so feet away. But they are out and about in this area most every night, somewhere...I just didn’t happen to wake up.
Thanx again,
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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#9 Post by Tommy Atkins » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:09 pm

Its actually an oddball one but sure its known as an "Oldelft HV5x80AT Mark IV" AKA an "RS4TS".
A very similar unit with almost identical performance would be the "Zeiss® Orion 80/I (Fero Z51)"
Bear in mind these do not fit a weaver/STANAG rail as they come (see the various mounts in the top of the fitted hard case) so make sure you have the correct adapters.
Image
There's one on E-bay right now!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Orion-80 ... 2a9cb565c5

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#10 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Scan.BMP.jpg
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey Tommy, thank you. Since it is Saturday, I have only talked to one guy, in a store, and he doesn't know anything about it but, ‘Yeah we have one’, and that is it. Monday I’ll start phoning around. Do you notice about that one on ebay....”...don’t really know if it is working...” Maybe for parts only.... I guess that I should learn something about reliability, huh.
If I run over to Utah, I would like to be able to do things at night as well, although it is only two hours away. Or, could just go over and check out the day-time stuff first.
I see a lot of scopes labeled ‘Gen 1 +’....that ‘sound’ okay. And a lot with no “Gen” labeling at all. I’ll learn about that I guess.
By the way, those coyotes came back again last night at three in the morning – I heard them this time - they really want our cat. There are 4,000 open acres out here in front of us so there is a lot of coyotes out here. And our nearest neighbor behind us is about 30 miles away.
That is our house and garage right in the middle of the photo. We are right at the very edge of an old meteor crater 30 or 40 miles across which happened before the Great Inland sea was here and just over the hill there is an old Caldera a hundred and fifty miles across...that was one big volcano. There was a whole lot a shaking and banging going on here at one time. There is burnt rock from the meteor collision all around here. And sea creature fossils...When the dirt-work for the house was done it was full of fossilized sea shells and sharks teeth and dinosaur bones are scattered around Colorado.
And I took that picture last winter...we are having very strange weather this winter, with 98 % of the area snow free. They say the least snow since the 40’s.
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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#11 Post by Tommy Atkins » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Working condition, number of hours used on the tube (they don't last forever) & so on. yes.
If the e-bay one has a try & return option that's no so bad. A lot of them have the original 30+ year old batteries packed in the case, many of the "dead" scopes are just dead batteries.
I'd definitely do some more research, knowledge IS power.
Gen 1+ is basically what you see in my earlier posts. The U.S. kept bringing out "new Generations" But European countries improved on existing ones! That Scope of mine is a Euro gen 0 1/2 probably (no such thing) but it behaves like a U.S. Gen 2.0!
Do you have any good sized gun shows by you, they sometimes have a few NV specialists there & you can look at & through demo models frequently. (Of course in room lighting everything looks great)

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#12 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:48 pm

Yes Tommy – They do have some Gun Shows here...I really don’t know how to compare ‘size’, but they advertise 800 to 1100 ‘tables’. These are in Denver every couple of months...but Denver is so out-of-control that I wouldn’t go to Denver to buy anything. But I want to buy something.
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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#13 Post by Tommy Atkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:05 am

8~1100 is a BIG Show. Very Big.
Its obviously a personal choice but I'd bite the bullet & check it out. To give you an idea I go to a 1,000 table show & it takes me 2 hours to just walk round it spotting & comparing for a Detailed revisit to those tables of interest.

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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#14 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:21 am

Hi Tommy – GUNSHOWS - Just to give you an idea of the ones here, which I have not been to.
https://gunshowtrader.com/gun-shows/den ... s-largest/

I see that 700 is mentioned now and not 1000. Actually I can recall maybe only a half a dozen gun shows that I have been to in my life and all of those were small.
I have spent 35 years outside of the States.
One thing that I recall is all of the reloads for sale...that always struck me as a really dumb thing to buy...to this day I just can’t imagine seemingly normal people doing this. I saw a picture one time in the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN of a 1903 Springfield fired with case full of BULLSEYE – It must have been in 50 pieces. And then again I have seen where the same test was made with other 1903’s and they appeared okay. Sure, I understand what a difference can be in a 250 grain, hard crimped bullet.
I thought of this....find a Cabelas open after dark where I can take it out side and look through them.
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Re: NIGHT SCOPE

#15 Post by Tommy Atkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Outside at night is the best test, but I doubt Cabella's will have old MilSurp scopes.

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