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IS & AIN'T

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OLDGUNNER
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IS & AIN'T

#1 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:55 am

WHAT IS AND WHAT AIN’T

I think, that it is too common for people to read something, hear something, see something on TV, read something in a school text book, see something on a YouTube Video, read something on a forum and then let that be translated in their mind to, “I KNOW.”
I very well recall the story told to us by a Chemistry Teacher on the first day of his class. The Dean of a college was giving a graduation speech to the new graduates. He said, “You have all learned a lot of facts during the past four years, but we know that half of these are true and the other half are not, the trouble is that we don’t know which is which.” He was telling us that it didn’t make any difference whether everything that he would be telling us would be so or not.
We all see YouTubes that we think is misinformation. You betcha.
It is hard to write something and always qualify it with, ‘I think’ or ‘I believe. I don’t know of any cure either.
The other day I was watching a YouTube and the guy was rattling on about comparing different rifles on their accuracy....and as far as I was concerned he was full of bunk. One of the glaring things that he said, “Soft point bullets are not allowed in war because it is against a Geneva Convention. Well I don’t believe that to be true at all. And I will challenge anyone here to show that in any reprint of any Geneva Convention. I think....it is just another example of, “If a lie is repeated often enough, it will become a truth."
I find that it is very easy to pass along misinformation on gun forums where it is accepted by the unwary reader, because it is so complex and hard to separate the truths from the untruths. And it will just pixx-off the writer if questioned, so it may be better for things to be left up to the reader to go on and believe it, if they do not want to learn the truth for themselves. It is good thing that most guns are made safe enough to let people go off, “Half cocked” as the saying goes.
One time, for some lapse of common sense, I was reloading some 28 gauge shot shells with Green Dot and I thought that I would measure out a 10 % over load and see what may happen in a Remington 1100. I did and took it out side and fired it...four or five pieces came flying out of it. I now have another 28 gauge 1100 that I shan’t try that with again.
It can be chiseled in stone that one learns more from their mistakes than their successes.
Here is something that I have read and have no reason not to believe...for you trap shooters out there. Roy Rogers was a true horseman and a shooter and had a trap set up in his back yard and would shoot the clay birds with his .45 Six Shooter. I have also read that at least one Remington factory shooter would practice skeet with slugs. This I also believe because I know that the trap shooter will really learn trap or skeet shooting quicker if they would practice with a .410 full choke and then graduate to .410 slugs or a .22 but this is usually hard to do because one has to have a lot of space on the range or go out into the bunnies or desert and set up his trap each time.
I have a pool table and when I bought it they also sold little inserts that fit into the pockets to be practice with....same idea.

Anywho, I try to be aware of that...."WHAT AIN’T."
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ffuries
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Re: IS & AIN'T

#2 Post by ffuries » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:50 pm

I think the prohibition of use of expanding bullets and soft tip bullets is covered under the Hague conventions of 1899 and 1907, which the US is a signer of.
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OLDGUNNER
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Re: IS & AIN'T

#3 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:45 pm

ffuries wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:50 pm
I think the prohibition of use of expanding bullets and soft tip bullets is covered under the Hague conventions of 1899 and 1907, which the US is a signer of.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll take your word on that - I don't recall the exact dates, that sounds right, but I do remember it being covered in two of the Hague conventions and not in a Geneva Convention, and as I remember the US was 'not' a signator of the poison gas restriction and as I remember the US President at the time said, "We will not sign that because we may want to use it sometime." And the US over the years made it by the train loads just in case someone else used it first. And it is funny, I think Germany did sign it. Do you remember why they were called Dum-Dum bullets?
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Re: IS & AIN'T

#4 Post by ffuries » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:52 pm

Because they were produced in the Dum Dum Arsenal.
Mike
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Re: IS & AIN'T

#5 Post by ffuries » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Also the use of soft points etc according to the IRC is banned under Customary International Law, although the US argues that at times it can be legal due to Military Necessity.

So in a nutshell while the use of expanding, hollow point, soft point rounds in international conflict is banned, the US and probably other powers will use them if they feel the situation dictates a military necessity. Opens up a sticky can of worms if you ask me. Kind of a we'll follow the rules, unless breaking them benifits us situation.
Mike
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Jan 86 - Sept 08
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ffuries
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Re: IS & AIN'T

#6 Post by ffuries » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:08 pm

OLDGUNNER wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:45 pm
ffuries wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:50 pm
I think the prohibition of use of expanding bullets and soft tip bullets is covered under the Hague conventions of 1899 and 1907, which the US is a signer of.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll take your word on that - I don't recall the exact dates, that sounds right, but I do remember it being covered in two of the Hague conventions and not in a Geneva Convention, and as I remember the US was 'not' a signator of the poison gas restriction and as I remember the US President at the time said, "We will not sign that because we may want to use it sometime." And the US over the years made it by the train loads just in case someone else used it first. And it is funny, I think Germany did sign it. Do you remember why they were called Dum-Dum bullets?
Correct the US was not a signer of the 1899 one, but did sign the 1907 one with arguments. The expanding rounds were covered under the 1899 one, but not the 1907 version. With that I don't know if that meant that amendment was deleted or what. That is for the international law and military law types to decide. I know they still referenced the Hague Conventions banning the use of such rounds in our military studies or at least they did up to my retirement.
Mike
TSgt, USAF Retired
Jan 86 - Sept 08
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life Is Our Business"
(122X0, 1T1X1, 1P0X1)
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