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SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#106 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:22 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTD7DqXfRno

For what it’s worth, some P-51 info versus the ME-109 info....Now this video covers a whole bunch of tech specs. The guy sounds like he may be familiar with what he is talking about....whatever.

I can see where these high victories of the German aces may involve don't mess with a P-51 at high altitude...get down quick.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#107 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:16 pm

https://www.edx.org/school/harvardx

This is a ‘For What it’s Worth’ that is worth a lot. They are really completely free and one can get a ‘Certificate of Completion’ for a small fee. But one has to work for that, otherwise they can be watched for free. I think that the tax payer is paying Harvard for the program. But they really move along fast – For a full-time student at Harvard taking a full load they really have to be on the ball – I couldn’t do it. I have just watched the lectures and not gotten involved with the certificates. There are other schools doing this also. There is such a thing as a free lunch. If one buys the text books to go along with the classes, they can be big bucks. But then there are places where one can down-load free text books, just probable not the ones for these classes. I saw a place one time for a free down-load of a Metallurgy text book and then couldn’t find it again.

Any who, the price can’t be beat.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#108 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:55 am

I understand how politics on a forum can quickly go awry and not conducive to civil conversation and contrary to the forum powers-to-be. I shan’t interfere with this but look at all of the nice juicy politics out there. Yes, ‘nice politics’ is a oxymoron but who would want to read about all of the ‘Rotten Politics’? Could it be something like, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA ?

Levity, levity, shouldn’t there be more levity? It has been said by some that ‘levity’ leads to a longer life longevity. I am reminded of this quite often when my wife says, “Why, do you want to live forever?”
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#109 Post by Mashuga » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:51 pm

OLDGUNNER, I enjoy reading your tidbits of information. I hope you haven't run out of things to ponder about.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#110 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:49 pm

Well thank you, It can get a little sticky when one tries to ponder the unponderable. That is one reason everything in life is a compromise.

Looking back through my pictures, I thought that this was interesting....one time I happened to be on the Island of Yap and I came across these left over Zeros just lying around and being interested in such things I saw how much difference the basic design of these versus our and other planes of the times were made. I don’t know how true this is but when I worked in Japan prior to this I was told that in the 30’s some German aircraft designers went to Japan and helped the Japanese design these planes with one major thing in mind – light weight, as a navy carrier plane.
This plane was the epitome of compromise....light for carrier use, leading wing design for slow landing speed and maximum speed, no armor, engine use for economy and range. But they lacked the finesse in fighter pilot training.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#111 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:17 pm

BENCH REST BARREL LIFE-
Okay, I will take it that I may be all wrong and that there is a whole lot of room for it...but, I can’t figure out where and ‘how’ I may be wrong. I can read and read and still don’t understand just how these competitive rifle Bench Rest Shooters look at things. I emphasize that I haven’t been there so I am just a spectator.

Lately I have been reading on the Bench Rest forums and I see where most are still looking at things differently. So much differently that I can’t figure out how I can be so wrong. I have an engineering back ground so I think that I look at things logically.

I can see where some say that their barrels last only for 150 rounds and they don’t use any of these rounds breaking in a barrel taking off the available shots from the 150. I think that may be an extreme and that is okay. If one wishes to change 400 and 500 dollars barrels that often to me this is just a matter of, “You pays your money, you takes your choice.” And I will see where others have come up with different figures, such as 800 rounds and a 1000 or 1500 before their accuracy goes beyond their limit. When I was a teen in the 50’s a neighbor that had the only NRA range in the county on his farm said that he was always, “Shooting out the barrels” of his 03 30-06’s and had to change them constantly at 2.95 and 3.95 a piece. I forget how much he was paying for his ammo but it was cheap from the DCM. I can reflect back on this and see just what he was doing. Simple, to me, he was shooing the standard surplus ammo....AND his rifles would shoot differently as the barrels were ‘Broken In’. By ‘Broken In’ I mean the bore becoming more smooth and the rifle barrel will shoot differently as the shots through it become more in number. Theoretically but probably not easily measureable, every normal barrel will shoot with a little less velocity after every shot fired , WITH THE SAME AMMO. Simple because the barrel will be bit a smoother and the pressure built up during the bullets travel down the barrel will be less. Now with the normal use of the barrel such as type of bullet, barrel fouling and barrel heating, etc. this will vary of course. This change is more noticeable in the barrel’s early life. And for this reason this is why I believe that some Bench Rest Shooters will perceive the barrel going bad after so few shots fired. But hey, they are the guys that are into the hobby and with the money so I shan’t fault what they do – I just wonder why? I have a feeling that most simple stop at working up their most accurate load and expect their rifle barrels to not change their liking's and just jump to the conclusion that their barrels must be going bad and change barrels. Now one may think that these Bench Rest guys surly know what they are doing and surly not do that...but I still don’t know how I can be so wrong.

I think that there is scientific logic to barrel bore grit finish, barrel breaking in, barrel life, choosing the most accurate load and....and, important but often over-looked the need to constantly change the ‘most accurate load’ to fit the constantly changing barrel bore, within reason. That is ‘if’, if, one is into competitive shooting as one can be. But...but, I think most like I, will shoot their old .22 a thousand times and just accept whatever they get. I still think that Fox Squirrel hunting is about the most sporting of the hunting sports. But I have given up on all hunting...but I will shoot the coyotes and prairie dogs. The coyotes because they are always sneaking around trying to get our cats and the prairies dogs carry the Bubonic Plague.

Really, I would like to know just how I can be so wrong...and all of these Bench Rest guys can be so right. I never see any forum postings that may give me some insight as to where else they are coming up with such short barrel life.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#112 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:18 pm

http://animalia.bio/aberts-squirrel

We have these Abert's Squirrels here but I don't know of anyone that hunts them because they are so pretty and friendly. If one just sets for a few minutes they will come to you as if to say Hi. Well not real close - maybe 20 feet or so.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#113 Post by Smokey » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:10 pm

In reality, 99.99% of shooters can't use the kind of accuracy a benchrest rifle provides. Once someone gets away from the bench and supports the rifle himself, a 4 inch group is really good. Maybe a little better from prone or sitting with a sling. Standing, a lot of folks can't even stay on the paper.
Arguing with someone who denounces reason is like administering medicine to a corpse.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#114 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:06 pm

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... -a-barrel/

Strictly for what it’s worth - - I noticed the point that he made about what may be done to a barrel during its break-in and he indicated that he had no idea. I thought this odd...I sure have an idea of what I think is being done to a barrel during Break-in. Metal is being worn away – little burrs and so forth that are on the riflings. As far as I am concerned the rifling edges are being ‘cleaned up’. And I have always thought that one may do some of this without firing shots to do this. I have used plugs of oiled cork glued to a wooden dowel and rolled in fine Aluminum Oxide, 0.3 micron which I have a bunch of or even 1.0 micron or more course if need be. One can see the difference in the bore if viewed with a 40 or 60 powered viewing device before and after. To me this gives one more control over doing so many shots and barrel cleaning regimen where it would be just some guessing...which by the way I don’t recall ever doing. Actually I see the good in doing this to any rifle bore, new or used, an old military surplus rifle or a new 500 dollar custom barrel. And lately I have been using wooden dowels with narrow strips of thin leather glued to the ends of the dowel for bore lapping.
etc., etc.

Well yes Smokey, I am speaking academically...I well realize how I think that most shooters view accuracy...but some get into it. I think that it is the more interesting part of shooting. And yes, most shooters are not bench-rest shooters. But a while back a smart-aleck coyote ran from me for maybe 700 yards and then slowed down to a lope. I had my Sako Vixen in .222 and I shot maybe 10 or 20 feet over him and got him with the first shot....sure a lucky shot but I did my part.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#115 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:20 pm

Just in passing I woke up in the middle of last night and had this wild idea....I won’t cover the what and why’s. An idea for a custom rifle barrel...if I was younger I might even considered it, ‘If’...the barrel maker wouldn’t think of it as part of his retirement package. I would probable have trouble even finding one that would do it.
But...have a barrel made of the latest toughest barrel type stainless steel In a caliber yet to be decided. A Bull barrel 24 or 26 inches long with an undersized bore that will be lapped out to fit a standard Sierra or Berger Bullet. Start out lapping with whatever grit size but work up to 1500 grit bore finish, then rifle bore but not with a Button Rifle, then refinish with 1500 grit again, and then finish with 2500 diamond grit. And don’t get any fancier than that and stick it on a solid generic receiver.
A cheaper way to go may be just buy a stainless barrel and do all of the lapping one’s self. I have read that the typical popular custom barrels are typically made with an hour and 10 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes of labor...and the last 10 minutes or so used for lapping. But I would plan on using much more time than that.
And then start out and stick with coated bullets with such as the Hexagonal Boron Nitride. Pick out a lower velocity loading with a cooler powder and plan on being able to get at least 10,000 rounds out it, but wouldn’t be doing that. And...and, don’t try to fine tune the barrel with only powder loadings...also use barrel tuners. I have a couple of the old barrel tuners at 10 $ each and they are the Cat’s Meow. But they are easy to make in all kinds of configurations. I was really surprised how easy it was to use just any box of bulk .22 Rim Fire and in 10 minutes bring that group size right down. If one would want to go with the premium .22 ammo, and barrel tuner they should be able to really win their share of pots at these shoots. Unfortunately they don’t have any of those around here.

And I really don’t know why Barrel Tuners are not more used on center fire. Really good ones can be made for nothing.


http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html

I have only shot the Nosler Moly coated bullets that I bought 10 or 15 years ago. Tubbs says that he likes the Hexagonal Boron Nitride (HBN) but he owns SUPERIOR SHOOTING SYSTEMS that treats your bullets.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#116 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:33 pm

Here is something that I don't understand - Anyone can make them...why not? But this does seem to be the present feelings....very strange.
DSC_0057.JPG
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#117 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:53 pm

DSC_0058.JPG
Okay---okay, stranger things have happened...but there may be some out there that has not been curious enough to try these...and so never has had a chance to really see just how they work. I bought these maybe 15 years ago for about 10 dollars apiece – they can still be bought for about that. It looks like they were 15 pounds in the UK when ever...but they can be made for just nothing. I made one with a little strap and a piece of lead. Just about anything will work. They work exactly how the guy on the YouTube says. I see a little tip of his that I never realized – fire with it looking through a scope and watch the cross hairs against the back ground...and see the cross hairs move from the recoil. Then move the ring around until the cross hairs move ‘only’ straight up. It sounds like to me that this may work. This should put one into the ‘ball-park’, and then fine tune. I listened to him ‘and’, agree with his every word. Depending on one’s particular recoil and barrel weight, they may need heaver one’s. Don’t....don’t listen to any naysayers. They just don’t know enough to be able to understand, or just want to sell you ‘their’ more expensive one, but you will have a choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2G2MubmuE
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#118 Post by OLDGUNNER » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:21 pm

I am sorry for my errant temporary lack of forethought. Of course one should be able to collect surplus firearms and not be concerned one iota with their shooting accuracy. Just because I am interested in fire arm accuracy is no reason to think that any others should be – I know better than that...again sorry, sorry. For this same reason I can not understand why some may be critical of others that may wish to modify their surplus fire arm. It’s theirs, they have paid for it...why can’t they do anything legal to it that they may wish? Of course they have their reasons and they are entitled to them, as well I don’t have to agree with them. No, I don’t think that one could be strange for not being interested in their fire arm accuracy - collect and enjoy.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#119 Post by OLDGUNNER » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:51 pm

Strictly off topic ---Just my view of some popular events.
One hears of all the noise on the media about ‘Hacking’. My first memory of hacking was when I was a kid and lived just out of town and we had a telephone ‘Party line’- a two wire 12 party line. Everyone had a ring code, such as two longs and a short, etc., which the whole line would hear on their phone. Now one was not suppose to listen in on other’s phone conversations, it was not nice. But one can visualize how that would go. So, this was an example of, ‘To hack or not to hack’....and everyone realized these conditions. Fast forward to today’s situations...we want to communicate but we don’t want others to ‘listen in’ so we simple use some sort of digital coding as a password. Here we use the ‘WWW’, ‘world wide web’ and may use some simple forms of ‘Passwords’. But everything we use personally goes out to the WORLD, really out to the world....on this big party line. So if one doesn’t want the whole world to know your credit card number, or banking information, don’t give it to someone with your computer. For more secure forms such as government communications we use more sophisticated forms of ‘private lines’. But for any of these, ‘any of these’, more secure forms of these transmissions are limited by one thing...radio is used for most of the traffic. And as we know, anyone can make a radio receiver. I think that the most secure form to date is still the ‘diplomatic pouch’, where the message is handcuffed to a carrier and the receiver has the key to unlock it and read it. Now there is nothing of a secret disclosure about this system, it has been used for eons. And of course this is still not a 100 % secure system. I had a personal experience of this one time of an interception attempt. During the Vietnam war there was a system of these message transmissions called the ‘embassy flights’, where there were two Air Force C-141’s circling the the world, one going east and one going west. I happen to be going from Clark AFB in the Philippines to Bangkok on a night flight one time on one of these flights, and it stopped over in Saigon at Tan Son Nhut AB. These flights were also used for high-level passengers and anyone on a ‘Hop’, but on that flight I was the only passenger...there were just the Load Master and me in the back. But normally at that time the US troops were keeping the landing patterns clear of VC small arms fire, but this was a ‘MAYBE’. So...the pilot called back to the load master and said to be prepared for a dive-in landing, from 35,000 feet. Okay, this may be interesting....but then the pilot called back again and said that it looked like a quiet night so he was going to let the co-pilot make a normal landing. As we were doing this, Oh-oh, another call, “We are taking ground fire so set on something heavy. The load master and I just set on a piece of half inch armor plating but I would have felt much better with some flak-jackets to bundle up in. The Load master said that just recently a passenger was killed by one of these ground firerings doing landing, right there. These embassy flights were well known by the VC and if they could sneak into the landing patterns and bring one down they might get a promotion. This was a more severe form of ‘hacking’. A funny side twist to this was doing the landing a C-47 pilot thought that he would be cool and follow close to us with his lights out and not attract the ground fire. Well, he may have been right but forgot, as with a lot of these situations, I saw it all of the time, the typical regular ground soldier did not know how to lead an aircraft. They were counting the bullet holes in the C-47 and they couldn’t find a single one on our plane so we continued on to Bangkok. As I remember the count was up to 140 some bullet holes in the C-47.

Back to the message hacking we hear of on the news. Now dog gone it, we all know how easy it is intercept a radio transmission. We have the under water cables across the Pacific and Atlantic but on land the radio is used because it is cheaper and convenient. We, I mean the country including the government and civilian sector, act as if it is down right ‘not nice’ to intercept our message traffic and read it and use it. Just because we try to ‘code’ the traffic and fail, we raise heck with another county that is smart enough to decipher the traffic. To quote Spock of the TV program, Star Trek, “This is not logical”. This to me is the same as writing a bunch of info an pieces of paper and throwing them into the winds of the world. Our powers to be know this of course but it makes good press to wail to the pubic about it – just noise and political fodder spin and of course there are a morass of statutes and regulations against reading and acting on this info.

One may be familiar with these in-house wireless routers that are used to transmit regular personal web messaging around the house to various things, my wife has a bunch of these ‘things’ that she plays with. They are usually low powered to help keep things private but still may go a few hundred yards. One day I saw my neighbors email traffic coming through on this – this is not uncommon. A common trick is to sneak into someone’s wireless router, step up the output power and determine the password and read everything that is sent from that router. Actually this is not even required. Anyone can place a battery or solar/battery powered relay transmitter just near a wireless router and read all its email traffic. And beware any good marriage divorce lawyer can have one installed. And....and, if it is done off someone’s private property, I think, I think, at least here in the US that this would be legal....’IF’, the information is not acted up on. I am sure that there is information to the contrary on this. The right and wrongs of most things are determined by the ability of a lawyer to convince a judge or jury of the what is ‘right or wrong’. But to be sensible why would this normally be done if it was not intended to be used. One time I made a little telephone bug with a tape recorder just to see if the baby sitter was having her boy friend over, but she never did, by using ‘our’ phone at least.

Like one time my first job while I was in the Air Force in 53, I was mistakenly sent to Newfoundland, Canada as a Radio Maintenance guy at a US military transatlantic radio relay transmitter site over looking the North Atlantic. We relayed all Air Force radio traffic to Europe. And I was told that I should not listen to any type of radio voice message traffic...military or civilian or I could be sent to Fort Leavenworth Prison. What a deal huh. But it just so happened that shortly thereafter it was considered impractical to enforce so this was changed, by the US. But other countries to this day still carry such statutes on their books. I have a US ham radio license now, and as far as I know...’this is as far as I know’...I can listen to any radio signals in the air legally, be they military or private, for non malicious reasons. But I haven’t read the latest rules on this. But I realize that this can depend on the legal prosecutor and the way the wind is blowing that day. They keep things like this vague just so they can go either way. I have an ex brother in-law that has a police scanner, a state highway patrol and firemen's scanner on at all times in his house. And as far as I know he can listen and ‘Act’, on the message traffic. He is a retired state patrol radio maintenance man and a small-town volunteer fireman.

I can talk with the international space station whenever they have their radio on, their ham radio. Their normal ciphered radio traffic is just a bunch of ‘noise’ of course.

As I have mentioned before a local high school kid here that is in his extra curricular computer club and as he said, computer hacking is so easy. This is of course is at the very low level type, but the theory is the same at the most secured level. And the news media is having hay-days about all of this hacking by the Chinese and others. A monkey can be trained to hack. I did own a monkey once for a while.

When I was in the forth grade at school doing the ‘War’, I heard the the big boys saying that there was no such thing as an unbreakable code. And I got back to my desk and thought about this...I come up with what I thought surely had to be an unbreakable code. It was a simple code of random numbers with a ‘one-time pad’. I didn’t know of this at the time but years later I found out that this had been known for years, thousands of years. And to this day, as far as I know, it is still known as the only known unbreakable code. The random number, one-time pad.

I did say that this was ‘off topic’, okay?
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#120 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:38 am

Just some more 'Off topic'...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leve ... g_language

https://www.wired.com/2016/09/computer- ... roof-code/

I realize that this may be just part of all of the stuff that one really doesn’t have to know. Years ago I remember that machine language was either ‘very hard’ or ‘impossible’ to go back and read. I know it is pretty hard to say ‘impossible’. Don’t get me wrong – this stuff is way, way beyond me. I just took some basic programming classes. But I did notice the date of the above second link, 2015. So I will assume that ‘hack proof’ programming is still not close. I can just visualize the thousands of people that are working on it. Mean while we can just cry and complain when the Chinese just do it.

Remember when Sony Pictures was hacked and had their in-shop office computers burnt...now I do remember in programming classes how this was done. It only takes a couple of lines of code to do it. It is called a ‘loop’, where the computer just sets there in a loop rather that goes on to another action, it overheats and burns up, literally gets so hot it smokes and burns open. Programmers have to know how this is done so as to keep from accidentally writing these loops into their own programs. This was just a simply case of the Sony bosses over looking this before they wanted to release a picture critically of the North Koreans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_hack This was two-fold – one just to be nasty and release Sony personal data and the other to burn up their computers. Look at all of the nice, nice people out there that do not do this for ‘Fun and Profit’. But of course some do it just for profit – holding at bay for ransom - big money.

I know one would not want to go anther day without knowing this. My exwife had a saying, “Now is this something that I really have to know?”
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