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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Mil-Surp Shooter
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for a Mk VI to use moon clips and .45 ACPs? Wish someone would put a pair of calipers on theirs. Or, possibly are they all different? Mine seems too tight to operate right, yet only about half the serial number shows on this cylinder?
Steve

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:53 pm 
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I just mic'd my shaved Mk VI cylinder and got approx 1.45"

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:06 am 
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Steve:

I don't have any shaved Webleys any more but...

I measured two of my unshaved Webley cylinders and they both measured out at 1.495", plus-or-minus a half-thousandth (.0005").

According to my reloading manuals, the nominal rim thickness for the .455 Mk II case is .039" and the nominal rim thickness for a .45 AutoRim case is .089", or .050" difference.

Subtracting .050" from 1.495" leaves 1.445" in order to have exactly the same headspace with .45 AutoRim as was originally present with the Mk II case. Same dimension for .45 acp's in moon clips, although using Autorim cases as the standard is better because there is a certain amount of moon clip thickness variation among manufacturers. Certainly more variation than rim thicknesses with manufacturers of .45 AutoRim cases.

So... what is the length of your cylinder to the nearest .001"? And what is the thickness of the moon clips you are using? Once we know the answer to these two questions then we should have all the necessary data to make an assessment.

-Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Mil-Surp Shooter
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OK guys thanks. Mine reads between 1.460" and 1.465"(different chambers). I'm thinking maybe the original smith tried to leave as much material as possible so, maybe owner could use original brass? Couldn't shoot any double action and single action was questionable when I could get the cylinder to turn to next chamber(took both thumbs to get this done). Not sure what half moon clips measure but, original military from early 1900s. I get back down into the basement I'll measure them.

Side note:
For the sewer pipe barrel this gun shot very well, first four rounds I got to chamber had three touching at about 15-25 feet?
Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Mil-Surp Collector
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S.B.

Do you mind letting us know your reload recipe? What type bullet & bullet wt?

I have used 200gn lead SWC and 230gn plated RN bullets and < 4gn Bullseye.

I am using full moon clips that measure 0.0475" thick

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:56 pm 
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I'm using a Lyman 230 rb over 3.0 of Bullseye. My half moons measure right at .035" Powder in this load show not much sealing of the cases, dark black soot all over cases. I have been told Alliant doesn't publish pressure data for BE, and didn't want to over stress the guns pressuer limits?
Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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thanks for the info SB!

That Bullseye is a 'dirty' powder. I bought some Unique ( when I could not find any Bullseye ) but have not tried it with 9mm or 45acp.

good shooting.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Steve:

Your headspacing is pretty much in the range for .45 Colt, the rims of which are .060" thick. Look at your cylinder throats carefully.

If they start approximately halfway down the cylinder then they are likely factory original as this is where .455 throats start.

If the throats start about 3/4 of the way down the cylinder then the throats have been reamed out to accept either .45 Schofield or .45 Colt cartridges.

A visual check will tell you. It's entirely possible that the machinist that worked on your cylinder intended to make a .45 Colt cylinder. I have a Webley Mk V that has been converted to .45 Colt this way.

Finally, the smoothness or roughness of a barrel can be, but is not always, an indicator of accuracy. I have a 1944 Mauser P.38 with a "sewer pipe" barrel that seriously out-shoots my 1945 Walther P.38 with an immaculate barrel. Dem Nazis; go figure.

-Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Bob, I dropped a .45colt into the cylinder but, it hangs out a long way. I was thinking like you, could be chambered for .45 Colt(rare conversion) but, I now doubt it, cylinder would never close on them.
Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:03 pm 
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luigi wrote:
thanks for the info SB!

That Bullseye is a 'dirty' powder. I bought some Unique ( when I could not find any Bullseye ) but have not tried it with 9mm or 45acp.

good shooting.


Bullseye? Dirty? Not in my experience. If you think that is dirty, wait till you try the Unique, although the new formulation has cleaned it up some.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:34 pm 
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S.B. wrote:
I'm using a Lyman 230 rb over 3.0 of Bullseye. My half moons measure right at .035" Powder in this load show not much sealing of the cases, dark black soot all over cases. I have been told Alliant doesn't publish pressure data for BE, and didn't want to over stress the guns pressuer limits?
Steve


I'm looking at a Hercules reloading guide from 1988 and it shows 13,900 PSI with 4 grains of Bullseye under a 230 lead bullet at 810 fps, and 16,200 PSI with 5 grains under a 230 FMC bullet for 905 fps. This listed under .45 ACP loadings.

Unique is shown at 11,800 PSI at 5 grains under the lead bullet for 790 fps and 16,000 PSI at 6 grains under the FMC at 895 fps.

All this out of a 5" barrel with Fed 150 priners and an OAL of 1.150" Again this is data from 1988

Unfortunately this manual doesn't list Auto Rim(AR), which to me is the better option for .45 Auto revolvers, and as a bonus for Webley's, SAAMI specs for it are lower pressure. If I recall correctly, it is advised to keep Mk VIs under the 15,000 PSI range.

As far as Bullseye, it is at the fast end of the spectrum for burning speed, and a small bump can rapidly increase pressure. As to the soot on the side of the case, that's a sign of the case not obturating and sealing the chamber, more so than "dirty powder"

I would tend to think your load is light enough to be safe, and may be too light to cure the sooting. A slower powder like Unique may even make that worse, although to me the soot is really not a concern. Pressure, accuracy and velocity, in that order, should be the concerns.

While all of the shaved Webley's I have seen have been adapted to the .45 ACP/AR, I have heard of those who shoot a cut down .45 Long colt case in theirs.

In any case remember with older data that it is good to use it for comparisons, and information towards, building a load for your gun, but is not a be all end all.

Hope this is helpful.

As always YMMV

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