reloading data

KySwiss
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reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

for 8mm. I am aware of the US watering down the original load due to change in diameter and all. My question is for the load data in the Lee and IMR sites, which are the same, will they result in the watered down version, or the original? More like 30-30 or European 8mm?

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Rapidrob
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Re: reloading data

Post by Rapidrob »

Lawyer loads.
There are many sites ( free sites) that have tons of German Specification load data. LEE does not in this caliber.
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KySwiss
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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

Would you be able to lead me in the direction of these websites? I am reloading 170 grain bullet with IMR 4064

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Re: reloading data

Post by ammolab »

The Hodgodon site has loads for IMR, Win, and Hodgodon powders that push 200gr bullets past 2500 FPS. That is SS ball velocity.

Your 170gr bullet listed over 2800 FPS.

Search here: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Or better yet buy several reloading manuals.

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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

Thanks ammolab. Hodgdon website is the same as the IMR I mentioned. Which is apparently a watered down load.

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Re: reloading data

Post by ammolab »

KySwiss wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:17 pm
Thanks ammolab. Hodgdon website is the same as the IMR I mentioned. Which is apparently a watered down load.
What velocity for your 170gr bullet would this “European 8mm” reach?

Look at the Norma or Vihtavuori loading data if you think European loads are not so watery.

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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

I found an article that states the American loads max out at 37,000 CUP, while the European approaches 50,000. Based on Winchester and Federal's pages, both of them shot a 170 gr at 2360 ft/sec. Nosler has a 180 gr going 2600 ft/sec and S&B has a 196 gr going at 2592. So IMR/Hodgden website shows that a 170 gr with IMR 4064 travels 2345 to 2706 ft/sec with CUP of 35,700 to 49,300.
Vihtavuori websites shows a 170 gr being pushed at 2454, 2451, 2497 (depending on which powder). Norma shows a 170 gr ranging from 2562 -2674 and 2549-2727.

This is what I have found so far. SO I would think that the reloading data on IMR/Hodgden site is close to a more European load.

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Re: reloading data

Post by ammolab »

KySwiss wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:23 pm
I found an article that states the American loads max out at 37,000 CUP, while the European approaches 50,000. Based on Winchester and Federal's pages, both of them shot a 170 gr at 2360 ft/sec. Nosler has a 180 gr going 2600 ft/sec and S&B has a 196 gr going at 2592. So IMR/Hodgden website shows that a 170 gr with IMR 4064 travels 2345 to 2706 ft/sec with CUP of 35,700 to 49,300.
Vihtavuori websites shows a 170 gr being pushed at 2454, 2451, 2497 (depending on which powder). Norma shows a 170 gr ranging from 2562 -2674 and 2549-2727.

This is what I have found so far. SO I would think that the reloading data on IMR/Hodgden site is close to a more European load.
Yes, that is why I wonder why you thought it was “watered down”. Note when comparing pressures that CUP pressures listed are NOT comparable to CIP psi measurements. Not only is the measurements in a different unit of pressure but the actual instruments are different.

Use the velocity of the bullet to tell you if you have all that the European 8x57JS has to give.

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Re: reloading data

Post by TNGhost »

KySwiss,

Ammolab is correct on all three counts.

CUP and CIP are not interchangeable.

Velocity, and not pressure, is the best indicator of the performance of a load. as depending on powder and other factors, you can have more pressure and less velocity, or less pressure and more velocity (the usual goal).

Owning a variety of reloading manuals, old and new, from a variety of sources, is the best investment a reloader can make.

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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

[/quote]

Yes, that is why I wonder why you thought it was “watered down”. Note when comparing pressures that CUP pressures listed are NOT comparable to CIP psi measurements. Not only is the measurements in a different unit of pressure but the actual instruments are different.

Use the velocity of the bullet to tell you if you have all that the European 8x57JS has to give.
[/quote]

The first response to my original question by Rapidrob said 'Lawyer load' that would mean the watered down version.

I appreciate all your help.

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Re: reloading data

Post by professrh »

If you visit the link listed below and scroll down past the cartridge drawing, you'll find a table of original German military standard issue rifle cartridges (in 8x57) that includes projectile weight and muzzle velocity. Personally, I tend to load a bit lighter than military spec for better accuracy in my hunting ammo, but I have scribbled such data into the margins of my favorite loading manual(s) for reference. Hoping this helps.

Prof

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92%C3%9757mm_Mauser

KySwiss
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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

Hey Prof, thanks for the link.

BTW, glad to hear from you again. We use to chat some years ago when I was Kymauser, before SRF went through a couple of owners.

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Re: reloading data

Post by professrh »

KySwiss wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:03 pm
Hey Prof, thanks for the link.

BTW, glad to hear from you again. We use to chat some years ago when I was Kymauser, before SRF went through a couple of owners.
I remember. Hope things are going well out your way. Let us know what you end up loading in your 8x57.

--Prof

KySwiss
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Re: reloading data

Post by KySwiss »

So far I have loaded up 8 different charges to check for accuracy. Hope to get to the range this weekend to see what shots the best.

I also ran ccx across the second edition of Modern reloading by Lee and it had the 170g 8mm loaded with 4064 starting out at 30.9 gr for velocity of 1939 and max of 35gr for velocity of 2175. That HAS to be the American watered down loads!!

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Re: reloading data

Post by professrh »

Oh, I think so!

Just remember not to try and push a .323" projo down a .318 barrel (which is harder to find anyway), and you should be fine.

PPU makes lawyer loads for "8mm Mauser" and legit loads for "8x57 mauser." At least, that's what I've heard around the interwebs. I've never actually seen PPU 8x57 Mauser ammo, or I'd have bought it.

In any case, you can find legit data for the 8x57 if you cross reference expected velocity for the issue round and for the load data. (Bearing in mind that one often wants to load well below max, for accuracy's sake). I think my Hornady 7th is pretty good. Ditto the Lyman 49th.

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