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Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

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KneverKnew
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Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#1 Post by KneverKnew » Fri May 03, 2019 8:52 pm

After consulting members in a previous post as to what the best method may be to restore my Beaumont stock to an original look, I decided to dive in and give it a try. That first post “Restoring wood finish on Dutch Beaumont. What did they use?” Can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=3268

When I got my Beaumont, the wood had what appeared to be either a spray on or gel stain/finish.

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Whatever the finish was, I was able to scrub it off with denatured alcohol, a green scrubby and two hours of elbow grease.
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I decided to leave the gel stain finish on the inside of the stock in hopes to help keep the wood from swelling due to moisture.
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What I was left with was some decent looking wood with some dents and dings here and there and some file marks in various spots. I’m not looking to make it look like a new stock so will leave it as is.
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Based on previous conversation I decided to use Dark Walnut Military Gun Stock Stain (with a hint of red.)
A hint, huh?
I was able to layer it on enough to darken it a good bit, but in the sunshine it just about glows orange!!
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So now at this point I believe I need to get some Feibings dark walnut dye to darken the stock more and hopefully it will look like a well aged stock when done. Of course I still need to apply several hand rubbed layers of Boiled Linseed or Tonge Oil. That should help darken the wood as well. Any pointers or alternative dye color suggestions would greatly be appreciated! Now to order that dye.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 1:00 am

On that wood it came out a wee bit too red. Did you do a test spot prior to application?
I was able to layer it on enough to darken it a good bit, but in the sunshine it just about glows orange!
I would say too much red for my taste, your first picture should have indicated you are too red and maybe needed some brown into the chestnut military stain. You have a nice even stain. Is that what you want? I am not trying to be over critical. Just some suggestions. I feel it's applied too heavy and too red from the pictures??? If you wanted a red-brown stock that's a great job. A nice even application. Not my cup of tea.

I would have done a test spot and noticed it's too red for your taste. Stop, then mix in some brown to produce a more brown red to the brown of your needs. With stain it's always mixing to get a correct color depending on the type of wood, its grain, and how it absorbs a stain. Rarely is a stain perfect out of a can. Each piece of wood is different.
I would get Fiebing's Medium Brown alcohol leather dye that produces a more brownish look that is lacking the red. You can darken the dye with a wee bit with oil paint of a brown to your liking, mixed into the dye. There are many different shades of brown oil paint. But it needs to go more brown. Remember to test a small area first to get what you like color wise on that wood. You can select Raw Umber, Burnt umber, or van Dyke brown to mix a drop into the dye if needed. Avoid the raw sienna that gives yellowish browns and Burnt sienna that gives a red-brown. At this point avoid the dark brown Fiebing's alcohol leather dye that produces a more reddish brown which you already have. It seems the present color on the stock is many layers and not rubbed in to produce uneven areas showing wear. It looks like a nice even application? Is that what you want? You can see what results a light rub of the medium dye will produce on the stock and see if some of the red comes out of the wood. When using the dye, do not wet down the wood like a stained application. Just a dab of dye on a dry rag to rub into the wood. You do not want so much color that it rubs off on your hands when you shoot the rifle in hot weather. Unfortunately, on that wood stock the Chestnut military stain as it got more layers applied into the wood produced a red, rather than a brown. Not what you wanted.

If the medium dye does not give a brown you like, then it's time to mix in some oil paint. If the test area result is not the color of brown with a slight undertone of red that you desire, then you mix some oil paint into the medium brown dye. Here is a caution, you are slowly approaching a look of painted on stain or paint. Too much color. You may want to consider an oil base, wiping cream, pigmented stain of a brownish color that tones down the chestnut red to a brown of your choice. But you do not want a thick application like paint. I always wipe off as much stain as possible. What I have used on furniture and some stocks to match in color in small repair spots is a wood filler, oil base, stain that is thick. But I wipe most off and into the wood fibers. It is in the "The Bartley collection limited" products called "wood filler" It come in the shades of woods walnut, cherry, hickory ect.

Bartleys paste wood filler is more of a stain, than a wood filler. This is a filler that stains the wood and fills the natural open pores in woods. It is not a void filler. See the end of this link to see its use as a stain. http://www.tdpri.com/threads/bartleys-g ... er.149391/
Bartleys can be wiped off so that very little remains on the wood, but yet it really has high pigment content that colors the wood.
Suggestions:
First, try the dye, the Medium brown or a mix it with oil paint, then when the color is correct to your taste, apply it with an ever so slightly rubbed in application.
Second, you may want to get a brown of your choice of a cream/paste filler stain and rub that in. If you can find the correct color this may be an easy route to take to get a more brown over the deep red. Bartleys is my suggestion ?? The only product I use. Your stock is very fine grained -no voids and is now soaked with the chestnut military stain that just came out too red due to too many applications of stain.

In the process of the dye or filler stain rub in, I hope some of the red stain will come out of the stock. You do not want a fake thick pained on wood stain look. Maybe try a rub of turpentine or Denatured Alcohol prior to the brown application; this may rub off some of the chestnut military stain. Let the stock dry a day, then do the dye rub or paste filler rub to produce a brown over the red base coat. Always test in a small spot, like under the bands or internal portion of the stock to see the results.

It is always best to do a stain of the correct color as a light rub with a correct mix that was tested for a result prior to its use. Now, I have applied a red base first and let it dry. This was done because I want a more reddish brown base, I have also used a light yellowish brown base on the wood first to give a more yellow base that is covered with a second more brownish dye. Whatever color is applied first really soaks into the wood with the secondary rubs as transparent colors over the base color. This can give a deep look to a stain. Your problem is you got a red as a primary base when you wanted a more brown base. So maybe some red will come off during the rub, and the brown applied over a red will produce a deep red-brown you like. On that stock it appears it would have been best to do the first application in a brown of your selection, then cover that with the chestnut so a brown will show through the red instead of the red showing through the brown. Does some of the chestnut rub off with turpentine or denatured alcohol? Get rid of as much as you can, then cover over that finish with a Fiebing's Medium Brown dye or a mix of the color you want when dry. Try to get the mix correct on the first shot. In all, a great learning experience, and thanks for posting results as you go. This post will be very helpful and informative.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon May 06, 2019 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#3 Post by les1234 » Sun May 05, 2019 8:03 am

In picture #5, it appears to have a crack forming. That's a weak area on these stocks.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#4 Post by KneverKnew » Sun May 05, 2019 9:45 am

les1234 wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:03 am
In picture #5, it appears to have a crack forming. That's a weak area on these stocks.
I found that crack after removing the original finish. It appears to have been repaired/ glued. I’ll keep an eye on it.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#5 Post by KneverKnew » Sun May 05, 2019 10:22 am

Wow! 72usmc, I had to get a second cup of coffee to finish reading your reply! So much info to soak in.

Yes, this was my first experience using alcohol based stain and is definitely a learning process. I agree the Chestnut Ridge came out a LOT more red than I expected. Of course it seems to have darkened some over the past 24 hours. I’ve ordered a bottle of the Feibings DARK BROWN as I think the medium brown would still add more red based off of the results a friend had refinishing an old trade gun he came across that had an old 70’s style green stain. He used Feibings medium brown and this is what it ended up looking like.
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I do believe the red may rub off a bit with alcohol and I will try that first. Then I’ll test the dark brown under the stock band area to see just how dark the Feibings goes on. If acceptable I’ll slowly rub on as you explained. Alcohol die will take getting used to.

If I determine the dark brown Feibings is too dark, is it possible to lighten it by mixing with more alcohol?

Also, I need to keep in mind that when I apply final hand rubbed coats of BLO or Tunge oil it will darken the finish more as well.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#6 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 10:25 am

Your can of chestnut certainly appears more red than my old can. I wonder if different batches are tinted different like paint that is mixed at a paint store. Each gallon can be off and you can see where you stop and start with different cans if you do not mix all the gallons together prior to painting a entire wall of a house. It is certainly a nice red base. Show us your test spot and what you decided to use to get back to brown. You did not say what you used to remove the first varnish? Good eyes on the crack:
0E327C2F-8DE2-4C9E-82B7-88A717E51A19_zpsagm2wwlj.jpeg
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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#7 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 10:43 am

If I determine the dark brown Feibings is too dark, is it possible to lighten it by mixing with more alcohol?

Yes, but not the best way to go. You control the amount with the rub. Do not soak the dye into or apply it with the applicator that comes with the shoe dye-- it will give way too much color that soaks in, you control the amount by a wee bit on the rag. After a stain or dye is dry, I always give the stock a dry rub with a bath towel to remove as much stain and sort of polish the wood finish between each application. Please get some old wood and try using the dye with a light and heavy application to get an idea of how it comes out. And I would give the existing color a rub to see what will pull out some of the red. But you must let the stock dry or really give it a rub with tee shirts like a French polish to hand dry it as much as possible. You want the wood dry for the application of the second wipe down. Again it is always best to try your method on a junk stock or on practice wood pieces to see the results prior to using it on the actual stock. Both the dark and medium dyes work fine, but different woods of the same type color differently. If the rifle has a hand guard it will have to go through the same process to match. On furniture with different boards of the same wood, to get a uniform stain, sometimes a board will need more or less stain to produce a more uniform application. This is controlled by rubbing in less stain or applying more secondary wipes. In a matching process, one may use up to three or 4 different stains to replicate an original patina finish.

Here are three photos in different light (2 Outside and 1 basement light source) with Feibings dye: medium brown and the dark brown on a bare white pine so you can see the hue produced by one thin wipe of dye on a new board in order to see which is more brown and which is more red brown. The appearance/result will differ on different woods and the base color that it is applied over. Best to have both colors of dye on hand. I also added a filler stain that is much less of a transparent strong color that soaks into the wood like the dye. Bartley Brown mahogany.
The top two are outside in sun. The first is taken in my shadow, the second taken in direct sunlight.
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This bottom one is taken in the basement with light bulbs
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In my experience, the dye produces a quick uniform transparent top coat and colors the wood grains better than a paste stain. The more coats the darker the result which is very difficult to reverse, so go light as possible and judge the results. Results can vary drastically depending on wood type and base color it is applied over.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon May 06, 2019 10:23 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#8 Post by KneverKnew » Sun May 05, 2019 11:31 am

72 usmc wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 10:25 am
Your can of chestnut certainly appears more red than my old can. I wonder if different batches are tinted different like paint that is mixed at a paint store. Each gallon can be off and you can see where you stop and start with different cans if you do not mix all the gallons together prior to painting a entire wall of a house. It is certainly a nice red base. Show us your test spot and what you decided to use to get back to brown. You did not say what you used to remove the first varnish? Good eyes on the crack:
0E327C2F-8DE2-4C9E-82B7-88A717E51A19_zpsagm2wwlj.jpeg
The more I look at the Chestnut Ridge the more I don’t mind it so much. Still, it needs more brown in it to look more aged and “antiquing.”
I did mention originally that I used denatured alcohol, a green scrubby and elbow grease to get off the original spray finish. Remember too, that this stock had already been sanded quite smooth by Bubba.
I left the finish on the inside surfaces just to aid in water resistance. Still seemed to take some of the Chestnut Ridge when I wiped it on those inside surfaces as well.
My hope was to get close to the look of the original aged finish on my M78 Swiss Vetterli.
Without a doubt, more brown is needed. I don’t mind going fairly dark on the Beaumont as many original finishes I’ve seen are quite dark, although there are many light ones as well.
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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#9 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 3:38 pm

I think the dye will do you fine see my color chips on pine for you to judge browns.
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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#10 Post by KneverKnew » Sun May 05, 2019 4:18 pm

That dark brown sure has plenty of red in it. I hope the brown carries through.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#11 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 pm

Here is the libertytreecollectors rifle with the colors and wear patina in the stock. So some spots will get less dye, others more, and then you mix a drop or two of black into a small cap full of dye to produce a very dark dye to apply in select areas to reproduce an uneven colored patina to your stock. In areas of hand contact points, the wood will be rubbed down to almost no color.
Screen Shot 2019-05-05 at 6.54.11 PM.png
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#12 Post by 72 usmc » Sun May 05, 2019 8:07 pm

Fiebing's color dye chart, be sure you use alcohol based product not water base. Note: colors are off due to computer screens and print outs. Now if you are really matching/blending in a small repair you can also use shoe creams to get a oil polish rubbed color on a hand waxed stock. But that is a whole different approach. :idea: The Pro dye is also a stronger alcohol based dye with excellent coverage & depth. Generally the regular alcohol dye works fine for me. If you were using a dye on a blond furniture to darken it I use The Pro dye with more pigment color agent it.

https://www.leathercaresupply.com/pages ... lor-charts
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Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun May 05, 2019 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#13 Post by KneverKnew » Sun May 05, 2019 8:17 pm

I understand what your going for now. We will see how things turn out.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#14 Post by KneverKnew » Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 pm

I was able to remove a great deal of the Chestnut Ridge stain with a clean towel and alcohol. How does it look now? Feibings dark brown arrives tomorrow.

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Re: Dutch Beaumont stock restore project

#15 Post by 72 usmc » Tue May 07, 2019 4:18 pm

That top photo looks nice, I bet with a thin wipe of dye you will like the darken look it will give. Do the band portion first to see if you like it; the dye does not come out as easy if you go too dark. The stock now looks more like the chestnut finish I generally see. Your dark brown dye will give it just a touch of brown with a wee bit of red, but only one thin wipe. A spot on a Tee shirt rag should be almost just damp, not wet.
I like this application and its color, a good base coat:
3CE6E277-4D17-47BB-B344-9C65F8810E43_zps1bb2q03m.jpeg
Screen Shot 2019-05-07 at 3.40.43 PM.png
Actually if the top picture is a correct representation of color, some would stop with the light color and be happy, I would go a wee bit darker, like you want to. Test at the end of the stock with a cue tip and rub in/off the dye to see the result wet, and then wait and see it dry. Then give the test area a rub with a dry rag and see the polished surface result. I think you will like a slightly darken look.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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