Hi am new here. I own a few German pistols including a 42 Mauser Luger and a Belgian Browning Highpower made under German occupation.

Anyway, I have the opportunity to buy what has been described to me as an Ortgies pistol with a grip safety. I have not seen the gun itself, but I have seen the 1945 capture/bring back papers. The guy who is getting the gun told me it was a 6.35mm. It seems to me that wasn't a calibre used by the Germans in Ww2.

I am just trying to get some background on this gun before I look at it. The other thing is that I have been researching the British SOE spy organization from WW2. Part of my research comes up with comments saying the Germans, in the death camps like Dachau, used 6mm pistols to execute spies. Could this be a type of gun that may have been used for such a purpose? If so, I would rather not buy it for personal reasons.

I am sorry I do not have more info about this pistol. I feel some general input would be helpful though. Thanks for your time.

I think it is: "Ortgies" not "Ortegies"....They are common from WW 2, as certain Germans could buy guns and carry them, Military Officers and Party flunkies...Buy the gun not the war story....

And Yes, they did carry the 6,35mm guns, but not officially, for shooting spies, they had plenty of 7,9 mm rifles and other methods...

Dale

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If those little Sweethearts won't face German bullets, then they'll face French ones!
George McReady in Paths of Glory 1955

Sorry about the mis-spelling. There is no back ground on the gun other than the Capture papers. I will see the gun tomorrow and decide.

I understand about not being too "tuned in" on a possible but not probable history to the gun. It intrigued me that some histories I researched often mentioned the "6mm" pistols used for executions and that they had a particular method when using them.

The seller I am dealing with says the gun has a grip safety and was in excellent shape. I recall the papers saying the serial number was in the 4000 range if that sounds right. He said he would decide a price when he sees it,but he told me anywhere from $400-$800. Would any german military or police Ortgies with GI papers be worth that much?

Thanks again.

Welcome to the Forum Warartist.

Below is a pic of my 6.35 mm Ortgies. While I guess you could execute a prisoner with this mouse gun, I would think it would be a lot easier with something a bit bigger. These were manufactured immediately post WWI as primarily a civilian CC pistol. Remember that 1920's Germany was a pretty chaotic place and people wanted to carry a small, easily concealable pistol for protection.

If you have not seen it, here is a good write-up on Ortgies pistols: http://ortgies.net/ortgies0015.htm

As for the price... that is for you to decide. Personally, unless this was Her Hitler's personal pistol (and it had better come with absolute proof), $800 is crazy. For something that was not standard military issue, capture papers add very little to the value IMHO. Have you checked the prices on some of the auction sites like GunBroker? I paid ~$175 for mine at Cabelas.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

Here in the USA, the cartridge is more commonly known as the .25 ACP.

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Let courage rise with danger, and strength to strength oppose.
A 9mm might expand, but a .45 won't shrink.

No, I have not researched prices yet as I am not sure which type it is for sure. I know the $800 was very high...I just didn't know if the capture papers would add value. I will see tomorrow...

As far as executions, the research I have read, describes Dachau officers and executioners using 6mm pistols to the back of the neck as a method for killing. I realize there were no actual 6mm guns, but perhaps something close. As far as killing power, I presumed the small round was possibly used as a wartime austerity measure...as it was 1944 when these executions took place. It also seems that outright death was not an issue but possibly incapacitation....as the victims would bleed out...a sign of near death rather than instant.

Sorry to be so macobre about this. Sort of dealing with some ghosts from the past on this possible purchase. Thanks for all the help, links and photos. I will let you know how I make out.

Since this was one of the most popular pistols in the US in the 1920's I tend not to believe in any stories the dealer might tell. They sold a ton of them here.

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The Red Bearded Kraut

I think I've seen them recently from $150 - $250 depending on condition and grip type (the snake vs. the other kind). Like a lot of online auctions - it also depends who's participating and how badly they want it.

Well, I looked at it. It was the .25 with the D snake emblem. 44000 range serial and it had the button safety release. Some freckeling but a tight solid gun. "Germany" stamped under the serial number.

I am friends with the dealer and the story from the widow he obtained it from was that her husband took two pistols off a German officer after a short gun battle.the bring back papers were dated for march of 1946 and signed by a colonel of an ordnance battalion. The paper was basically a signed blank with the serial number and type of gun typed in.

The dealer wanted $500 and I offered $250 as it would have been a paperless purchase. I passed on it in the end, with a better knowledge of hese guns than I had when I first was offered it.

Thanks to every one here who offered up knowledge and advice. I really appreciate it.

They occasionally come up at online auctions in usually fair to good condition - but to find a nice one might take a little longer - they are out there though.