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Import marks on firearms lists

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72 usmc
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Import marks on firearms lists

#1 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:03 am

Here is some ATF info see this link:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... n-overview

From the above ATF source:
Marking Requirements

Serial Number

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame or receiver

The serial number cannot duplicate the serial number appearing on any other firearm the importer previously imported

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch
Name of Manufacturer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
Country of Origin

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the country of origin must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
Model Designation (if assigned)

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the model designation must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
Caliber or Guage

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the caliber or gauge must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
Name of Importer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the importer’s name must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
City & State of the Importer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the importer’s city and state must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
Note: The importer must ensure that these marks of identification appear on each firearm. If the manufacturer did not mark them, the importer must place the required markings on the firearm within 15 days after their release from Customs and Border Protection custody. The Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives may authorize other means of firearms identification upon receipt of a letter application from the importer, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other means of identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of the regulations.
Here is a second interesting source, Bob Adams:
http://www.adamsguns.com/disclaim.htm
3. "No Import Marks". This does NOT mean that anyone smuggled it into the United States.
This is a common term used throughout the industry. (A recent internet search showed over 27,000 results)
It is simply a means to communicate to customers whether the gun has visible import markings. Nothing more and nothing less.

Foreign guns without import markings are not necessarily more valuable. Some are MORE valuable with import marks.
(For example: Stoeger and Abercrombie & Fitch Luger Pistols, etc.)

This phrase may indicate:
a. A war trophy brought back by any soldier at any time. These did not require import marks and are completely legal.

b. Guns imported (by anyone) in or before 1968 did not require import marks. The Gun Control Act of 1968 was the
first time import marks were required – and the Act only applied to licensed importers. It is fully legal to own such a gun.

c. Any gun imported at any time by anyone other than a licensed importer does not require import marks. These are
completely legal. Even today, a licensed Dealer or Collector can import a gun and no import marks are required.

d. At times I may be unable to see any import marks - which have been placed in obscure locations by other
importers - under the grips, under the slide, under the barrel, inside the firearm or are very tiny. It’s simply not possible to
easily find all such markings. These markings are completely legal, and the ownership of such a gun is fully legal.

e. Someone may have removed the import marks after importation, which ATF verified to be completely legal.
(In fact, ATF says an owner may legally remove ALL markings from a firearm except for the serial)

f. Over the years, I have heard some collector guns have come into the United States by diplomatic pouch.
However, this is only rumor. If so, these would have no import marks.

g. A person immigrating into the United States, or returning to the United States after living abroad, may bring their firearms
into the United States in their household goods. These would have no import marks.

h. If the import marks were placed on the barrel or slide of an imported firearm, and the barrel or slide is replaced by a gunsmith
or the owner, there is no requirement to replace the import marks on the firearm.

i. If an owner or gunsmith replaces a barrel or slide with a replacement part which already has an import mark, then the firearm
will have a spurious importer mark.

j. If a firearm is refinished at any time after importation, the polishing of the surface may remove any import marks. There is no
requirement for replacing import marks on a firearm.

k. Occasionally, spurious importer marks may be deliberately (or unintentionally) applied to any firearm for any reason –
and have been. There is no law against this practice.

l. In the past, some companies (Interarms, for example) molded their import marks into the plastic grips on pistols
(PPK pistols come to mind). Plastic grips are an easily replaceable part and if replaced, the pistol no longer has import markings.





--------------=--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for lists of possible IMPORT MARKS there are not too many sources. I know of three that are helpful:
:arrow: The best list that shows a mark and identifies it is posted on 7.62x54r.net. While from Mosins, it has import marks found on many post 1968 imports.
This list is well know has has been posted for ages. It shows/identifies 57 import marks.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinImport.htm

The second list also shows approximately 21 companies with the actual mark & its identification of some marks found on M1 carbines:
Consult this source for great photos and detailed information:
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/imports.html
Where to Look for an Import Mark & What it Looks Like

The majority of importers placed the markings on the barrel forward of the stock. However, import marks have been found on the barrel under the stock/handguard or somewhere on the receiver. They may be anywhere on the barrel or anywhere on the receiver. There has been no standard location or orientation.

The name of the importer may be the full name, an abbreviation, or initials. The city may be spelled out completed or abbreviated. The state is usually it's initials.

Various methods have been used to place the markings on the carbine and include hand engraved, machine engraved, or stamped with a die. Stamped information may have been stamped by hand or machine, individual letters at a time or as a group.

Alphabetical list of importers who are known to have imported U.S. Carbines and their known markings. This information is for the U.S. Carbines only and should not be considered complete.
(Note: If you have additional or better quality photographs than what's depicted below and wouldn't mind sharing them, please contact me. Thank you.)

Arlington Ordnance
Arlington, VA


ARL ORD ARLINGTON VA

ARL. ORD. ARLINGTON, VA


Armex International
Broderick, CA


Blue Sky Productions
Arlington, VA


BLUE SKY / ARLINGTON, VA.

Century Arms Inc.
St. Albans, VT & Georgia, VT


CENTURY ARMS INC.
ST. ALBANS VT.

CENTURY ARMS INC
ST ALBANS. VT

CENTURY ARMS INC ST. ALBANS, VT

C.A.I. GEORGIA VT.


Davidson's
Greensboro, NC


DAVIDSON'S GREENSBORO, N.C.


Exel Arms
Gardner, MA


EXEL/GARDNER, MA.


Federal Ordnance
So. El Monte, CA


FEDORDINC SO. EL MONTE CA.

FEDERAL ORDNANCE INC.
SO. EL MONTE, CA.

Fed Ord Inc.
So. El Monte, CA. USA.


GFCC Corporation
Sacramento
, CA

GFCC CO SAC


Inter-American Import Co.
Sacramento, CA


IA CO. SAC. CA.


Interarms
Alexandria, VA


INTERARMS ALEX VA
INTERARMS ALEX. VA.


INTRAC Arms
Knoxville, TN


INTRAC
KNOX, TN


MEREX
Savannah, GA


MEREX
SAV., GA


MEREX
Alexandria, VA


MEREX
ALEX, VA


Navy Arms
Ridgefield,
NJ

N.A. Co.
RIDGEFIELD, N.J.


New Helvetia Mercantile Corporation
Sacramento, CA


NHM CO SAC CA



Oyster Bay Industries
Oyster Bay, NY


OYSTER BA

OBI
OBNY


SAMCO Global Arms
Miami, FL


SAMCO MIA FL


Sherwood International
Northridge, CA


IMPORTED BY SHERWOOD INT'L
NORTHRIDGE/ CA. U.S.A.


Springfield Sporters
Penn Run, PA


SPR SPTR PN RN PA


Trigon
Athens, GA


Trigon AthGA

The third source (Northwest), I made screen shots of the marks because so many references come & go. If the link should fail, here are screen shots from this source, SEE CREDITS IN THE lower LINK:
The first column shows the import mark as it appears stamped on the firearm, Company name in second Column.
http://www.northwest-denture.com/mauser ... marks.html
Screen Shot 2019-12-13 at 7.56.43 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-13 at 7.57.00 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-13 at 7.57.23 PM.png

Most know this, but here is a very short review on IMPORT MARKS :
The data required to be on all non-antique firearms imported to the United States after the passing of the GCA in 1968 are as follows:

1. Serial number: This number cannot duplicate any previous one used by the importer. Must appear on the frame or receiver. Must use Roman letters and Arabic numerals (no Greek, Cyrillic, etc).
2. Name of Manufacturer
3. Country of Origin
4. Model Designation
5. Caliber
6. Name of Importer
7. City & State of Importer
SOURCE https://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/gun-co ... z69Jz3Empb


Also note later import marks are larger and are generally found as "billboards" on the receiver thanks to the Feds:
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the country of origin must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
As of 1/30/2002 the Serial # must be on the receiver (not the barrel), minimum 1/16 " in height, the import mark also got larger; :lol: Welcome receiver BILLBOARD IMPORT marks after 2002. :snooty: It is always best to get a surplus firearm as a bring back lacking import marks, or second, as an early post 1968 import mark that is tiny and generally found on the barrel or near a wood line on the receiver. They are so small the import mark is hard to find. Some rifles imported after the Tariff Act of 1930 to 1967, just have the country of origin stamped on the rifle such as" England or France".
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#2 Post by Ghoulardi » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:29 am

I have a couple of handguns where the importer stamped theirs on the front strap of a P-1 (P.W. ARMS) and on the dust cover of the P-64 (TENNESSE GUNS). rather then billboard it on the slide, makes for a clean look :D
Last edited by Ghoulardi on Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#3 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:31 am

Here is the worst placement of a PW import mark. Really stupid, later they switched to the right side. Placement and location, size, and depth of the import stamp are a factor in the selection of a firearm. Most important, it is now a major factor in the price and desirability of a firearm due to so much variability in the import mark's size & location. Who in their right mind would pay top buck for such an obnoxiously marked pistol? If it's a truck gun or something for a fishing box or garage gun for a hunter/farmer- no one cares. But to a collector that wants one for shooting or display, the import mark is a attribute that plays into the price/value of the specimen.
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This is a better choice for an import mark location- on the barrel:
Screen Shot 2019-12-29 at 9.16.20 AM.png
Better yet the ones I went after back a few years ago:
IMG_2441 (1).jpg
Granted do you want a $99 PW or a $129 TGI??? :shhh: :snooty: :think: :doh: :doh:
An easy choice back in the day for me. I paid the extra $30. Which one would you buy? And which one is more desirable if all the attributes are equal on a pistol?
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#4 Post by Ghoulardi » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:40 am

TGI Knox, Tn. is TENNESSEE GUNS INTERNATIONAL
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#5 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:12 am

MDW GUNS is an odd one on newer firearms from MDW Guns of Waterford Maine
20190326_124750.jpg
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http://www.mdwguns.com/import-marks.html

An importer of Swiss firearms, both hunting and surplus, is Edelweiss Arms of Chesapeake VA., 912 Corporate lane. Their import mark is

EWD CHESAPEAKE ,VA
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Some like Simpsons make very tiny marks because they get some ATF allowance??
This may not comply with the ATF marking regs these days, though (ATF does, however, grant variances to importers, if you can show an alternative means of compliance [AMOC] with their intent of being able to pick up the trace of the gun at the original importer or manufacturer).
Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 10.47.49 AM.png


This is an interesting argument over value and a need for an import mark on rare surplus firearms. Worth a look at:
Why Import Marks are under discussion NOW

http://weaponsman.looserounds.com/?p=10863
Last edited by 72 usmc on Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#6 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:06 pm

SIMPSON LTD G BURG IL

Is a smaller, normal import mark found on firearms imported or marked by Simpsons ltd firearms in Galesburg, Illinois at 140 S. Seminary street. They import some very high end stuff and use very discreet import marks- NOT THE BILLBOARDS see the lugar photos above and this mark:
Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 10.59.03 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 10.47.49 AM.png
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#7 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pm

MMB or MMBI
marked as, MMBI MYERSVILLE MD, is an import mark from MMB Importers LLC at 13306B Pleasant Road, Myersville , Maryland.
MMB Imports, a licensed firearms importer (FFLO8), offers firearm import services to collectors of fine and historically significant firearms. Additionally, MMB Imports imports rifles, pistols, revolvers, edged weapons, and firearm parts for sale to collectors. To date we have worked with firearms dealers and exporters in Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Italy, the United Kingdom, Spain, France, and Slovenia.
photo source and better views https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... port-marks!

https://mmbimports.com/?page_id=235
photo source
P49-BEFORE.jpg
WF-Bluing.jpg
P210-1-AFTER.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#8 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:38 pm

R Guns C' ville IL , other forms exist and are larger esp. around 2011-15, RGUNS Carpentersville IL
Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 11.45.19 AM.png
Picture 5.png
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image.jpg
The worst and largest import mark was produced by R-Guns of Carpentersville, Illinois located at 855 Commerce Parkway. It was so bad on their Mosins that no one would buy one as a collectable. I still have not found a photo of the first obnoxious billboard mark that covered the entire top of the rifle. Their improved second mark is bad enough.
viewtopic.php?t=1985
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#9 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:06 pm

MOLOT, MOLOT-ORUZHIE LTD - Russia - Mosin Nagant - KO-91/30

KO - 44
KO - 91/30


Molot has been the major exporter of refurb 91/30s since approximately 2012 or so, if I remember correct? Molot Mosins are a sort of Jonney come late export introduction as a last wave of 91/30s, (both hex & round receivers), M44s and some sniper 91/30s. The MOLOT white import mark is generally observed on Mosins that are coming directly from Russia-it is an Ivan firearms manufacturer. Around early 2012 Classic had them at $99, and as late as 1014-15 I saw them at Cabalas priced at $129-149, just prior to the rise in Mosin prices.
The MOLOT import mark is nasty and spread all over the rifle in the form of white etched markings. Not all are in white, there can be a combination of non white & white import proofs and markings. All will have a CIP mandated proof mark - the Klimovsk diamond insignia. Other than the white markings these were some pretty nice Mosins.
88547e395940cdc75da1b9cf3cd3477e_0.jpg
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Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#10 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:24 pm

MOLOT round receiver import mark on common 91/30.
Screen Shot 2019-12-29 at 2.20.01 PM.png
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Mystery Mosins with white marks ....
http://cartridgebox.blogspot.com/2014/0 ... art-1.html

The Molot company information:
In 2017, Molot-Oruzhiye OOO was added to the list of companies under import sanctions by the US Department of Treasury. This means that further imports are banned, and we are limited to stock on hand of these firearms.
https://fimegroup.com/molot/
Last edited by 72 usmc on Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#11 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:41 pm

ATI, Summerville, SC Serial #### or ATI Roch NV

Another recent import mark is ATI; (American Tactical Imports) , 231 Deming Way, Summerville, South Carolina (ATI Summerville SC). I know of the ones found on Mosins both 91/30s and sniper 91/30s. Some have the mark on the side of the receiver others are more obnoxious and found on the very top center of the receiver. These are in white like the Molots- not sure if that is a new trend??? While I do not like the white mark, these were some nice Mosin rifles. I can live with the old dot matrix ATI mark lacking white paint, a little black, charcoal grill, high temp paint wiped over the dots and it's almost gone. :dance: Some take a very hard, polished, smooth steel rod and rub it over the dots to smooth them down then apply the paint. With such a hardened steel, polished rod like a Snap-on Tool, the rifle's blue stays intact, yet the high edges of the dots get pressed down- add the paint and you got a nice import mark. Not removed, but subdued. Or so some say :think: :think: :think: :shhh: :shhh: :shhh:
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Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#12 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:13 pm

“JJ CO NY NY” import stamp.

The J Jovino import mark is infamous with Australian, Lithgow SMLE's It is a very tiny mark and is always lightly stamped on Lithgows.
Screen Shot 2019-12-29 at 8.45.21 PM.png
It is a hard to find little sucker. :shhh:
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source: https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=240075

No. 1 Mk III* (Lithgow - "New")
Often advertised as “collector grade” or “mint - unfired” or “unissued” and selling for $200 and up.

Watch out for these! Quite a few “new Lithgow” rifles have been built just within the last few years from spare parts bought from the Australian government. The parts are new, and the rifles were never issued--but they aren’t Lithgow factory rifles by any stretch of the imagination! They’re recently-built parts guns.

It is possible (though not likely) that some Lithgow-manufactured rifles with late-1945 (or later) dates were kept in storage and subsequently surplussed out in unfired or unissued condition. Such rifles would have 5-digit serial numbers with either an “E” or an “F” serial number prefix, and the serial number would be stamped on the rear of the bolt handle and on the bottom of the fore-end, as well as on the receiver ring. Neither the nose cap nor the bottom of the backsight leaf will carry a different serial number on these rifles. Also, legitimate factory rifles will have 1/4-inch square brass or copper recoil plates installed on the fore-ends where the sear boss bears against the wood. These plates will be attached with small brass wood screws.

If you find a “new” Lithgow with a 1943 or 1944 date, be highly suspicious. This was the height of the war, and virtually all rifles manufactured were issued. If you find the receiver marked with a “JJ CO NY NY” import stamp, assume it’s a parts gun unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. (Many “new Lithgow” parts guns appear to have been assembled on receivers imported by John Jovino & Co.) If you find a 4-digit serial number with no prefix letter and an “A” suffix, this is clear evidence that it is not a Lithgow factory rifle. If you find different serial numbers on different parts, this is clear evidence that it is a parts gun. And if the recoil plates are missing, it is not only a parts gun--it could be dangerous to shoot. There’s a possibility that the fore-end will be damaged with as few as 20 or 30 round fired.
Where JJ Co used unissued receivers, they did not have serial numbers on them from Lithgow.
JJ Co numbered these receivers themselves, using a letter suffix (usually A) in the serial instead of a letter prefix as was customary markings for Lithgow.
If any doubt, a quick look at the serial number and date on the rifle will soon sort it.
For knowledgeable collectors of Lithgow Enfields, these assembled new rifles are pretty easy to spot by their light colored stocks and parkerized finish. Another dead give away for the assembled rifles is that they are not in the normal Lithgow serial number ranges. Most of the assembled rifles have serial numbers that either start with a "G" prefix or have a "A" suffix.
source https://www.enfield-rifles.com/jjco-jj- ... c9876.html



The John Jovino Gun Shop or the John Jovino Import Company is a firearms dealer and factory located at 183 Grand Street, Manhattan, New York. The John Jovino Co bought the Lithgow factory SMLE rifle remains and part stocks sometime in the 1980's when the Australian Government shut down production. John Jovino imported tons of rifles ( 68,000). He purchased complete Lithgow No1 Mk IIIs rifles from Australia, Cadet rifles, and the factory stock pile of parts that included new receivers, barrels, and all other parts. From these parts J Jovino built "new", so called unissued Lithgows that his company assembled at his facility at Jacksonville, Arkansas. JJCO NY NY is an import mark stamped on the right side of the rear receiver, or on the right side of the receiver bridge, or on right hand side of receiver just above the woodline in front of the bolt handle? A good number of the put-together-rifles have missing recoil plates which can cause the stock to crack when fired. I point out this import mark as a caution when looking at an Enfield import, I have not seen it on other firearms, but it must have been used on their other imports??? Remember there are a great number of Lithgow factory made rifles and nice Cadet rifles he imported that have their recoil plates and are stamped with the "JJ CO " import mark that are fine Aussie specimens.
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Import marks on firearms lists

#13 Post by capt14k » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:04 pm

Federal law does not require the billboard import mark that Century puts on Mosins. That is done because their local ATF agent told them that is how it must be done and they won't challenge him. Semi-Auto Rifles are different. Bolt rifles can be under the barrel still hidden by the cleaning rod.


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Last edited by capt14k on Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

capt14k
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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#14 Post by capt14k » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:08 pm

Here is a perfectly legal import mark imported 2018

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Re: Import marks on firearms lists

#15 Post by capt14k » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:09 pm

Another legal import mark 2017

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