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WASP WAIST BULLETS

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OLDGUNNER
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WASP WAIST BULLETS

#1 Post by OLDGUNNER » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:15 pm

https://www.bing.com/search?q=wasp%20wa ... F5F969C416
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Does anyone know of any 'WASP WAIST BULLETS' on the market now - they are great. I have maybe 700 left from years ago. If one has an old Herter's catalog as one dated August 1972, which is the only one that I still have, look on pages 175 -177. I have read a little bit about the design, by a German. By the way It seems that 'EVERY' WW2 vet that I have talked to that was in the European front has said, "Boy, those Germans were smart". Things like this are relative, right....if they were smart what does that make the American soldier? The US won the second war mainly because of the American effort in making war implements back here in the states. We were making them faster than our Armies were using them up. A coworker told me one time that he worked in a Douglas Aircraft factory in the 40's in Long Beach, California and at the time they were making 10 C-47's and 3 B-17's per day and one can imagine of all of the other factories in the US. One point I remember, he said that the Army Aircorps crews were climbing into the planes as they were pulled off the assembly lines with no Douglas test pilots checking them out first and if they checked out okay, they were flown to their new assignment, nonstop. That has to say a lot about quality.
Wasp Waist Bullets - One can read about the accuracy of the surplus Italian Carcano 7.35 short rifles, with some saying good things and others saying bad things. In 1956 I bought two of these, as brand new and not issued for $14. 95 each. The used one were $12.95 and a wooden box of 1728, 7.35 mm cartridges dated 1939 was $42. And I was amazed of how accurate they were and I realized the reason for this, the quality and repeatability of the ammunition . And to 'THIS DAY' there are some that will just reload for this rifle with some Hornady .300 bullets and use a powder loading given by some one. And that is it...It won't shoot worth a crap and they are set aside. It is not the rifle at fault, it is the 'reloader' plain and simple. Mr. Carcano realized the advantage of the Wasp Waist Bullet in these 1939, 7.35 bullets that he had made for this rifle and they work as good as can be expected and better, I know, as I said I must have shot up half of my box of 1728. Now the primers have by now deteriorated to the point of being useless, so they can be used only for components.
Today's bullet makers over-look this Wasp Waist Bullet....but I would think that possibly one can make a die to form this Wasp Waist feature from a normal bullet. If I were younger I would do it, I had thought of even just making a cast bullet mold for this type of bullet - some one should do it. I would think that typically all bullets in all calibers should be of this type....Now this is just my opinion, okay. It took American aircraft designers until the F-102 to figure this out and gain an extra 200 miles per hour. I have read that some German found this out in the 40's for aircraft. The Lockheed's extra speed in their F-104 is attributed to this design. It is called the 'Area rule'.
Last edited by OLDGUNNER on Fri May 25, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#2 Post by doctorxring » Thu May 24, 2018 9:58 pm

Wasp Waist Bullets. Wow. I haven't thought about those since I was kid in the 60's thumbing
through my Dad's Herters catalog. Thanks for the memory !

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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#3 Post by spentprimer » Fri May 25, 2018 9:14 am

I could head down the old Herter's building that now houses a manufacturing facility with my metal detector and sweep the parking lot and see if anyone dropped any.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#4 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun May 27, 2018 2:33 pm

DSC_0058.JPG
I
Addendum ----
Well heck - they are not popular today because they are more costly to make and....and therefore probable they are not made as good as they could be and therefore not as accurate as they could be so I shall modify my original words as above so therefore I will just forget the whole idea....and use the good cheaper stuff, in the other calibers.

And I really have no idea if they are actually more accurate than others - they just seemed to be at the time.

I guess I should make a drawing on how I made my first bullet mold. Maybe someone can use it.
Last edited by OLDGUNNER on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#5 Post by OLDGUNNER » Sun May 27, 2018 2:40 pm

DSC_0058.JPG
Yes, Wasp Waist bullets are noticeable superior to the ones made by the prominent bullet makers of today...why don’t they make them...It is a conundrum as to why they won’t. They know that they are better, but it is the American way, ‘They will buy what we have to sell and we ain’t going to change’. I wonder where Herter’s found the maker to make these. As I have said, all that it would take is to make a forming die to convert regular bullets to this design. And then one step beyond this was their ‘Wasp-Waist Sonic Missile Tail’ bullet. This was the regular Wasp-Waist bullet with an added ‘Boat Tail’ design. And we know that Herter’s had a rather ‘over-the-top’ advertising flare.

At one time (61–66) I worked with the Lockeed F-104 program and their whole ‘high-speed success was due to its Wasp-Waist shaped fuselage’, with the ‘boat tail’...it was called the ‘Coke Bottle’ design.
No big thing, but one day I was given some business cards that read, “Lockheed F-104 Management Team” with my name.” As I say, no biggie but it sounded okay to me, at the time. No I am not really into things like that. A month later I asked for a DOD contract job. Anyway, I understand, just the bare basics, of the ‘Wasp-Waist’ design. In 56-58 I worked for Douglas Aircraft and one of my short-time side jobs was testing things in a ‘Wind Tunnel’.

If I were younger and had the time, or took the time, I would make some of these jacketed bullets...I will just guess that they may give an 8 to 12 % increase in velocity or whatever, with no other changes in the ammo....just a feeling. You can’t burn me at the stake if it wouldn’t make it. For another 24 dollars I could buy another .285 LEE bullet mold and lap it out to a .308 Wasp-Waist boat-tail design...or anyone can do that. I ‘may’ get around to making a lapping tool to do this. Just for me I think that these aluminum bullet molds are much easier to work with than the steel ones. I have some Lyman steel molds and I find them just too darn hard to fine tune them easily ...yes I find them all in the need of some fine tuning. You may be surprised how I made my first steel bullet mold when I was 15 or 16...it is so easy that anyone can do it.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#6 Post by noddaz » Mon May 28, 2018 1:52 pm

For someone that hand loads and has a lathe , couldn't they turn down a bullet to have a wasp waist before hand loading? If someone had the time maybe a comparison test could be made. Mythbusters anyone?
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#7 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon May 28, 2018 3:48 pm

Yes, I could do this easily, I have everything to do it with...and I may just do it. I have the lathe, and a shooting range in my back yard, a chronograph to do the comparison testing...but you mentioned the key word...'time'. Just a while ago my wife asked me to do at least two more things. But I can't figure out how to get more than 24 hours into a day. But I wouldn't try to turn down each bullet - I would just make a simple lap and go from there. Okay, I will try to turn down one bullet today.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#8 Post by OLDGUNNER » Mon May 28, 2018 6:41 pm

Okay, I just made one but I couldn’t find my assortment of lathe bits so I had to wing-it with a file...no it doesn’t look pretty...I could make a comparison test of these two...I even put a boat-tail on it. But anyone can do this with a regular hand drill motor or a bench drill press and a file, not any kind of production of course. But I am not going to set the chronograph up at this time. When I was a kid my dad didn’t have a metal lathe, just a wood lathe, but I would improvise and use it for metal for some things...again with a file or small hand drill motor. I would use a stone in a hand drill motor and work on things in a drill press. Heck, I still do this. One has to do with what one has. I don’t see why one can’t do their own Mythbusting. One can make their own dummy lap from steel like they would like their bullet to be like and lap out a cheap LEE mold with it – elementary. That’s what I did to make the mold for this bullet, .301, and other custom bullets in the past. And....I can't get my picture of the two bullets to attach right now - oh well, well try later. This is trouble here at my end, I know.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#9 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue May 29, 2018 1:20 pm

DSC_0061.JPG
Okay, here is a 'not so pretty' Wasp-Waist' bullet that I made. I couldn't find my appropriate lathe bits so I used a file.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#10 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:49 am

IN PASSING...AND HIT N’ MISS

On this Wasp-Waist issue...I THINK, although they may have better sustained velocity like the boat-tails, the repeatability, the accuracy, would be more important and herein maybe the reason that they are not popular. The cost involved in making them with the required precision in balance as that of the normal straight bullets may possible/probable keep them out of the market place. Even for the bench-rest shooter who makes their own bullets, they may be hard-pressed to do this.

The other day my wife was working in the yard and there was a bear milling about maybe 75 feet away, and our dog was all in dither to stay between her and it by constantly looking back and forth to keep right between the two. It’s funny to see how the dog reacts to a bear in jostling for power. The times that I have seen, the bear will slowly walk away. I have the feeling that the bear is not afraid of the dog, but is just nice enough to let the dog ‘think’ that it is the boss.

On the news this morning....What about all of the big influx of Kaliites coming into Colorado with their bags of money and paying 5 and 6 hundred thousand for a 200 thousand dollar house. The real-estate sales people love it but a whole lot of people are just selling and moving out of the state creating a lose in the skilled labor force. A while back the governor created a free training program for big equipment operators. And apparently there is not enough carpenters to build houses fast enough.

And, ‘As the world turns’.
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Re: WASP WAIST BULLETS

#11 Post by OLDGUNNER » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:57 pm

OLDGUNNER wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 2:33 pm
DSC_0058.JPG
I
Addendum ----
Well heck - they are not popular today because they are more costly to make and....and therefore probable they are not made as good as they could be and therefore not as accurate as they could be so I shall modify my original words as above so therefore I will just forget the whole idea....and use the good cheaper stuff, in the other calibers.

And I really have no idea if they are actually more accurate than others - they just seemed to be at the time.

**********************************************************
Wait a minute - hold the phone....I just thought of the artillery shells that are made with the very same principle involved for the same reasons. It would be easier to make these in the larger size compared to the small arms ammo. So maybe the basic principle is still valid....just too costly for the small arms ammo. I was never in the army as some here have been, so they may be more familiar with these.
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