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Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

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Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#1 Post by S.B. » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:22 pm

I have two, one Khaki(squared flap)the other RN gray rounded flap). My pistol fits both with the snap closing on both. The Australian cleaning rod for Mk1 No6 will not fit in the rod slot in Khaki(rod too long) but, does in the RN gray one, grip hangs over past the holster in Khaki but, is completely covered in the blue holster. Could it be the Khaki is for the Webley .38? On both the marking inside the flap are from the same era.
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Last edited by S.B. on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#2 Post by S.B. » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:30 pm

I tried my S&W M&P 5' in the khaki holster and it fits just fine, now I'm more than convinced it's for a .38 Webley or Enfield. I researched them as best I could and look like my hunch was right?
Steve

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#3 Post by DeaconKC » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:15 pm

Nice info, can you put up some pics to show it clearly?
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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#4 Post by RWS » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:41 am

I'll try and get a few pictures up tomorrow but my camera battery is dead at the moment.

So... what we're talking about here is Pattern 38 canvas/web holsters. They typically come in 3 colors. Khaki was Army issue, blue was RAF issue, and grey was Navy issue. You ideally need a Pattern 38 belt for these holsters as they have no belt loop per se. It is possible to put them on a U.S. web belt but the holster will not be nearly as secure as on a Pattern 38 belt. If the U.S. web belt is allowed to bulge in the middle of its width then the holster can detach and fall off, although I think you would have to be running or pretty active for this to happen.

There are generally two sizes. The larger ones like your blue one, Steve, with the rounded flap is designed for the larger No. 1 .455 revolvers and will also allow a .38 revolver to fit loosely.

The holsters with the squared off flap are the smaller of the two and were designed to accept the Enfield No. 2 Mk 1 revolver, the Webley No. 2 Mark IV revolver, and the S&W .38-200 revolver. A barrel length of five inches is what the Brits decided upon, so the holsters will obviously take revolvers with barrel lengths shorter than 5". They will also accept the larger No. 1 revolvers in .455 with four-inch barrels that pre-date the Mk VI (marks 1 through 5). However, none of my No. 1 Mk VI revolvers will fit these holsters to the extent that the flap can be buttoned.

One issue that I have encountered involves the grip girth. For example, if you try and use the smaller holster for some .38 revolvers with Pachmayr style grips that have rubber on both the front of the grip and the backstrap, the grip may be too wide for the snap to close, even if the barrel is only 4" in length. I have a Ruger Security Six that will fit most of these holsters and a Colt Official Police that will not. Both have Pachmayr Presentation grips on them.

The other issue is that these holsters are 70+ years old now and many have shrunk. I have a few that will barely close & snap, even on an Enfield No. 2 revolver, due to shrinkage. Also, some manufacturers made them either slightly larger or slightly smaller. You really can't see a difference in size, but you can certainly tell when a revolver is inserted by how much pulling force you have to exert on the flap to get it to snap into position.

All the above applies to original British Pattern 38 issue gear. To further confuse the issue reproduction holsters are now available from several sources and quality (and sizing) is all over the map on these.

I used to buy genuine Pattern 38 holsters off eBay all day long for $5 but now they're bringing $20 or more depending on condition. Hope this helps...

-Bob

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#5 Post by S.B. » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:27 am

Sorry, I don't see how to post pictures to this site as of yet?
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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#6 Post by S.B. » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:06 am

Bob, any clue as to the marking inside the flap to determine if it's Navy or RAF? I assumed mine was faded blue but, could possibly be gray?
Steve
Last edited by S.B. on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#7 Post by RWS » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:07 am

Steve:

If you want to upload photos, DON't use the default "QUICK REPLY" option. Instead, look below the text box and just to the left of the SUBMIT button there is a "FULL EDITOR & PREVIEW" button. Click it.

When it opens you will have a more full-range of text and editing. In addition, below and to the left of this larger text box is a button that says "ATTACHMENTS". When you click on it an "ADD FILES" option will appear and allow you to upload files from your computer or a web photo hosting site. Just follow the prompts from there.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#8 Post by RWS » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:10 am

As to the color of your holster, the blue and grey holsters can fade to a bluish-grey that makes it hard to determine the original hue. Best bet is to shine a flashlight into the pouch area where the barrel goes and see if you can tell. As far as the markings go I think you'll find the same manufacturers' markings and dates on all 3 color holsters.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#9 Post by S.B. » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:34 am

The attachment Mk2 wrod.JPG is no longer available
Mk2.JPG
The attachment Mk2.JPG is no longer available
I
Hope this works?
Attachments
Mk VI wrod.JPG
Mk2 wrod.JPG
Last edited by S.B. on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#10 Post by RWS » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:04 am

Looks like you got the photo upload thing figured out, Steve. I can see your pics just fine.

The Khaki holster is indeed supposed to be for the WW2 Brit & American .38's with 5-inch barrels. Evidently yours is just a tad long because I can't get a .455 Mk VI to insert and close in any of mine (I have 6 of these). The 6" barrel of the Mk VI is what prevents the flap from snapping into place. I imagine you do have to pull the flap with a bit of effort to get your holster to snap with a Mk VI inserted?

The other holster with the rounded flap is the one that is the WW2 No. 1 Mk VI replacement for the old WW1 leather holsters. Colors can trick you on photos, but I think yours is one of the Navy grey holsters, or at least it looks that way to me. That's just an opinion so don't take it to the bank. Maybe someone else will chime in with their thoughts.

- Bob

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#11 Post by S.B. » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:16 pm

RWS wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:04 am
The other holster with the rounded flap is the one that is the WW2 No. 1 Mk VI replacement for the old WW1 leather holsters. Colors can trick you on photos, but I think yours is one of the Navy grey holsters, or at least it looks that way to me. That's just an opinion so don't take it to the bank. Maybe someone else will chime in with their thoughts.

- Bob
My SWAG(scientific wild arrsed guess) exactly, Bob, Navy all the way?
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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#12 Post by RWS » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:52 am

Without being able to examine it in person, Navy grey is my best guess.

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Re: Questions about Webley Mk1 NoVI holsters

#13 Post by DeaconKC » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:09 pm

Thanks!
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