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Ballester-Molina

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cwo4uscgret
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Ballester-Molina

#1 Post by cwo4uscgret » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:43 pm

I found this all matching Argentine Ballester-Molina .45 ACP at a local gun shop. I bought it because it is one of the cleanest Ballesters that I've ever seen. It is all matching; the serial number is different the the other number on the gun; both numbers are on the gun and two matching magazines where they are supposed to be. I'll be in Argentina at the end of the month and I will visit the Museum of Arms of the Nation (Museo de Armas de la Nacion) in Buenos Aires to see if they can help me with any info.

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this number is different the the serial number which is on the frame and the inside of the slide
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this is the actual serial number of the gun

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#2 Post by Cattus Borealis » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Beautiful Ballester-Molina!

Maybe a Rack Number versus a serial? Perhaps you can visit this museum in Argentina:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... ice-rifle/

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#3 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:05 pm

see this on Molinas;

http://www.cruffler.com/historic-september99.html
A good cheep 45 for a truck gun. Sears and mag lips are worn out and may need replacements. That example is way to nice for a shooter.
As good as its gets. Pick up a holster for that jewel.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#4 Post by Point-man » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:43 pm

Nice pistol, have a safe trip.

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#5 Post by retread12345678 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:50 pm

These are way under appreciated I prefer them to some of the better known Spanish commercial .45 autos Many were refinished and rebuilt

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#6 Post by indy1919a4 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:29 am

72 usmc wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:05 pm
see this on Molinas;

http://www.cruffler.com/historic-september99.html
That is a real nice concise article on Molinas. Very Nice.. My only complaint would be that G Gordon Liddy told me that they were made out of Graf Spee salvaged metal.. And I would not want to be the one to tell him he's wrong.

Personally when I clean mine I can almost make out the letters "Gra. S.." inside on the fame.. :)

To OP fantastic condition...That is a jewel
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cwo4uscgret
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Re: Ballester-Molina

#7 Post by cwo4uscgret » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:50 pm

Beautiful Ballester-Molina! Maybe a Rack Number versus a serial? Perhaps you can visit this museum in Argentina:
As previously noted - a visit to the museum (probably my 4th visit there) is planned...

Thanks all for the compliments on the pistol's condition.

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#8 Post by Itmocksme » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:21 pm

Nice pistol!

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#9 Post by retread12345678 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:25 pm

I had not heard the GRAF SPEE connection I can 't wait to spring on someone!!!

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#10 Post by indy1919a4 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:46 pm

retread12345678 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:25 pm
I had not heard the GRAF SPEE connection I can 't wait to spring on someone!!!
Well, before you go Hog Wild... there are a lot of twists and turns to this story...

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... er-molina/

So as of yet you can kinda believe what you want and no one can call you crazy... ever so often there are some
modern efforts to salvage the ship.. If that ever happens it will be easier to see if there were any real salvage in the 1940s.

But she sat in the mud for years before sinking and there was some cool stuff taken off her..
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Re: Ballester-Molina

#11 Post by RWS » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:23 am

The Graf Spee thing has pretty much been debunked by the experts. Sources in Argentina cite that Sweden supplied most of the steel. I think the Graf Spee story is appealing and will live on for a long time but there's just no evidence of donor steel from the Graf Spee being used in Ballesters.

I went from being a skeptic in 1967 of the Ballester-Rigaud and Ballester-Molina pistols to a full-fledged fan. I've owned a dozen or so over the years (still got two) and I can say with absolute certainty that they are the equal of any WW2 1911A1. Just as accurate, just as durable, and just as reliable.

In one aspect at least it is superior to the 1911. By this I mean that the longer tang on the back of the grip ensures that there is NO hammer bite whatsoever. I suffer from hammer bite with 1911's using a spur hammer so all my commercial 1911's sport rowel hammers. I'm not gonna change out hammers on a vintage WW1 or WW2 1911 so if I shoot any of them I wear a glove.

The two biggest weak areas in Ballesters are their miniscule sights and the poor quality original magazines. One of my Ballesters has had modern MMC sights installed so it's the one I shoot most often.

As to the magazines, do not be surprised if you experience numerous malfunctions with original Argentine magazines. They are very poorly made, IMHO. Also, the slide stop on a Ballester is a slightly different profile than what you find on a 1911. As a result, when using 1911 magazines best reliability will be had when using magazines with steel followers in them. I use Mec-Gar and MetalForm mags and they run 100%. I really like Wilson mags, and use them in my 1911 commercial pistols, but they have synthetic followers that will often fail to lift the slide stop on a Ballester. Reliability with Wilson mags is fine until that last round, which will feed, fire, and eject just fine, but the slide will frequently run home on an empty chamber. Not a biggie but the mags with steel followers just work better in Ballesters. Just my 2 cents worth...

-Bob

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#12 Post by indy1919a4 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:45 am

RWS wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:23 am
The Graf Spee thing has pretty much been debunked by the experts. Sources in Argentina cite that Sweden supplied most of the steel. I think the Graf Spee story is appealing and will live on for a long time but there's just no evidence of donor steel from the Graf Spee being used in Ballesters.

-Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ATG3Ft57mE :)


But agree that the Ballester Molina's are the equal to the 1911. the other nice touch is all the nice Variants on the pistol

You Have Air force stamps
Navy stamps
Parons Personal Guards stamps
Customs stamps
Police stamps
British Contract

And I am sure there are more...

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#13 Post by RWS » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Arky-Boy just re-registered recently. He and I put together a fairly comprehensive list of slide markings, but there might be some we missed, and there may be an error or two. Just the best we could do without actually traveling to Argentina. I hope he sees this post; he has a lot of good info.

Also I should point out that Arky-Boy did probably 80% of the compilation. I just contributed maybe an additional 20%, if that much (thanks, Arky). Here's what we have so far. It also applies to Sistemas:

- AERONAUTICA ARGENTINA (AIR FORCE)
- ARMADA ARGENTINA (NAVY)
- ARMADA NACIONAL (NAVY)
- C.F.S. ("CONSEJO FEDERAL SEGURIDAD" OR FEDERAL INTERIOR SECURITY)
- DIRECCION GENERAL DE ADUANA--POLICIA ADUANERA (CUSTOMS OFFICER)
- DIRECCION SANTE FE POLICIA--(?)
- EJERCITO ARGENTINO (ARMY)
- GENDARMERIA ARGENTINO (BORDER PATROL)
- GENDARMERIA NACIONAL (NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE)
- INFANTERIA DE MARINA (MARINES)
- MARINA ARGENTINA (NAVY)
- MARINA DE GUERRA (NAVY)
- MINISTERIO DEL INTERIOR POLICIA DE LOS TERRITORIOS NACIONALES (POLICE FOR THE NATIONAL TERRITORIES OF THE MINISTRY OF THE INTERIOR--?)
- POLICIA DE LA CAPITAL (BUENOS AIRES POLICE)
- POLICIA DE LA PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES (POLICE FOR BUENOS AIRES PROVINCE)
- POLICIA DE LA PROVINCIA DE SANTE FE (POLICE FOR SANTA FE PROVINCE)
- POLICIA FEDERAL (FEDERAL POLICE)
- POLICIA MARITIMA (NAVY SHORE PATROL)
- PROVINCIA EVA PERON (POLICE FOR EVA PERON PROVINCE)
- PROVINCIA JUAN PERON (POLICE FOR JUAN PERON PROVINCE)
- REPUBLICA ARGENTINA ARMADA NACIONAL
- blank slide (CIVILIAN--OR BRITISH SOE PURCHASE IF "B" SERIAL NO.)

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#14 Post by indy1919a4 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:06 pm

Wow, That is a mouth dropping wow.. Many thanks for the list

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Re: Ballester-Molina

#15 Post by RWS » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:02 pm

Thank ArkyBoy. He did the lion's share of the work.

A few years ago before I retired, I worked with this 5 ft, 1 inch tall petite lady shooter who had become tired of shooting 9mm pistols. She wanted to add a .45 acp pistol to her small collection and asked me if I had anything I could sell her. She was on a pretty tight budget so I offered up one of my Ballester-Molina pistols for $300 and she jumped on it.

My wife and I went to the range with her the first time she shot it and you would have thought she had been shooting one all her life. Her first 7-shot group was 3.5 inches and she only got better as the day went on. Just incredible.

Unfortunately, she is a bad girl who has taken to referring to the pistol as a "Ballerina Molester" and I have been unsuccessful in correcting her. Can't push too hard. I might get shot, I dunno.

-Bob

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