7.65 French Long.

Les Révolvers et Pistolets de Militaires Français, Mle.1873, 1892, 1935, Unique, Ruby, et alia
butcharoot
Member
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:18 am
Location: Seffner, Florida

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by butcharoot »

Thanks for the info SWIHARTMARK. Butch

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

Just got my order in from Starline today. The rim is a few thousands thicker than mine and the 1945 steel cases I pulled out. I fit the new stuff into my pistol with the barrel out then closed with a case in it and they fit a bit "snugger" than their predecessors. A few thousands can do that as I have numerous experiences with making slip fitted mating parts. I think they will work, I hope. If not, I can fix this right fast.

Anyways, it is time to order a Lee .32acp mould and perhaps look for a m1935S now. I'm going to put "Prussian Blue" on my Starline cases just to keep them separate from my own work. It was nice to pull out the pistol and see her again. I have no memory how she shot, but she cycled all my cases, which made me feel good.

Do post your experiences with this brass. The wider groove seems to be good thing. The wider rim, not so much.

Best Regards,

Mark

Tuna
Member
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 am
Location: New Bern NC

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by Tuna »

Ok so I have been loading these new cases. First thing is to full length size them in a die made for the 7.65. Standard small pistol primer and 3.5 gr. Unique gives positive function and the cases show standard pressure signs. The bullet is the Hornady .309 diameter 90 gr. HP.

Now some older loads I had made but did not get the chance to fire are loaded in modified .32 S&W cases. 3.3 grs Bulleye with a .308 85 gr. bullet pulled from 7.62x25 ammo. These fire but do not eject properly. Both of my 1935 pistols like and function with the Unique so now its a matter of seeing which load shoots the best.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

I just started reloading some of the Starline brass I bought and it is coming out of the shell holder since the ejector groove was cut way too large/long. I tried some of the cases I personally made with my own tooling and quickly noticed the difference in how the cases were held in by the shell holder. I used a shell holder from several different manufacturers to no avail with the Starline brass. I'll stick to my own stuff from now on. If you can't bother to copy something correctly, just stop making junk/scrap. I guess I could attempt to make my own shell holder for this stuff, but making my own cases seems better since I know those will always work. Gads, a simple visual inspection detected the problem once it was noticeable from working shells into the dies from various shell holders. I used a CH4D for 7.65mm French long, a Lee for 32acp and something else. That's terrible with a capital "T" and that don't rhyme with pool. Rookie machinist....

Best Regards,

Mark

I shall attempt to contact Starline and give them an earful,

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by 72 usmc »

I found out the best shell holder to fit for the steel case French original .32 French Longue and the new Starline brass French long is the RCBS 7.65 special order shell holder part # 57170 RCBS brand. RCBS Shellholder 7.65mm French MAS (32 French Long) Product #: 921353 Manufacturer #: 57170-SH7.65FrnchMAS. 23 Jan 2020 addition . THIS SHELL HOLDER IS AVAILABLE AS A SPECIAL ORDER FROM RCBS, SEE THE COMPANY REPLY ON page 3 in QUOTE, cost is 23.95 + state tax + shipping which to WI came to $32.70. ORDER PART, 57170

So it seems Midway discontinued this shell holder :roll: :( :doh: BAD NEWS! IT fits the new STARLINE BRASS perfect. Go figure. Not sure who may have a few. Someone needs to call RCBS and get them on the ball.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012260416?pid=921353
Screen Shot 2020-06-12 at 8.31.26 AM.png
IMG_2823.jpg


Shell holders for additional cartridges may be available.
Contact RCBS Customer Service at 1.800.533.5000

What shell holder are people using if not the RCBS one????

I am not sure of this, but maybe CH4D shell holder M1 may work. see the list it may fit. I have not tried this one ( it seems to multi purpose and one may have some wobble and up/down movement like seen if one used a .22 hornet shell holder---sloppy at best):
https://en.strobl.cz/M1-shell-holder-ch4d-2/
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

The Lee Precision #7 for 32ACP definitely does not work. The CH4D M1 does not work either. The RCBS#12 does apparently work though. I still like my brass better since it works in all three. I have no idea how this stuff ejects yet. We shall see. Mine does work though. It is shameful that the CH4D shell holder does not work as well as the Lee Precision #7, since you either paid a lot of money for a die set or only can afford a reasonably priced Lee 32ACP set to reload 7.65mm French long with. I cannot give this brass high marks yet for those reasons alone. Seriously, how many shell holders do you have to buy to work this stuff?

Best Regards,

Mark

BTW, going to use the 32ACP Lee powder thru die for this. I do love my 32ACP regardless.

Tuna
Member
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 am
Location: New Bern NC

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by Tuna »

Mark I would suggest that you contact Lee about a proper shell holder for the brass cases. The one that came with my Lee 7.65 French long dies is a perfect fit to the Starline brass. Also using .32 auto dies just doesn't cut it and the same with the shell holder. One might experiment with an old .30 carbine sizing die by cutting it down till it can size the brass properly. But a proper shell hold is required.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

I think I am using a RCBS #12 shell holder that works. I do have the CH4D reloading set and their shell holder apparently does not work. That is rather sad. Also, the Lee #7 for 32acp is a no go.

Best Regards,

Mark

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

Providence has willed me to visit the range today and I tried out some reloaded 7.65mm French long rounds. I fired off about one dozen of the Starline brass reloads and had numerous jamming incidents. I also fired off 5 of my hand made cases with my reloads and they worked flawlessly. I remain unimpressed with the Starline brass as a result.

In order to give a better review of the brass, I shall examine over all length, use a heavier bullet, and manually cut a new extractor groove into their brass and see if that makes a difference. This way I will know exactly what is going on since I need to know if it is something I'm doing wrong or something Starline did. Right now I am of the opinion it could go either way, but I shall pin it down once and for all.

If all I have to do is cut a new extractor groove, I can live with my purchase. If all I have to do is use a bigger bullet and adjust the over all length, I can live with my purchase. If you got this brass and had to cut a new extractor groove to get it to work, I'd be really angry right now. I did find that the pistol was more accurate than most of the ones I have, so she is still a keeper. I shall endeavor to see what is going on with this brass or my reloads. We shall see down the road what it is.

Best Regards,

Mark


BTW, wearing long johns does make going to the range in December tolerable and I got type I diabetes which makes cold weather even more miserable for me, especially any exposed skin. No wind and temps in the 50's helps too.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by 72 usmc »

Mark what bullet? What OAL? Did both batches have the same OAL? I have not messed with mine. Is the angle the same on yours and Starlines brass?
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

I will supply answers for those questions, just not up to it now. I will want to immediately want to make up new rounds, but I might need a new mould first. I did save two of my old rounds to compare to the newer ones. I'll have to be extra precise in measuring them. Remember, this is a lot like work, since i do that for a living, so I do get burned out doing in 24/7. I think the cast bullet I'm presently using is too small, not long enough. but I am just guessing off the top of my head without solid data. Disappointed it didn't go as well as I had hoped. I can use the older mould for 32acp, which I really, really like. I sense a heaviler and longer bullet might not solve the problem entirely. My old reloads were real smooth though. I used store bought cast bullets though. I have no good idea how many grains they were. Given time, I will find out. My poor brain wants some rest before I tackle this problem again.

I did take out the Lebel rifle and revolver and they worked pretty well. Looks like some more 32-20 Winchester cases to convert to 8mm Lebel revolver cases are in my future. I cannot find a .330" diameter pistol mould that doesn't include a loan officer in my future at that moment though. I also got my 6.5mm rifle mould to work in three different rifles, so things are looking up for me. I still need work on properly lubing my bullets. I also successfully reloaded M1 Garand 30-06 ammo, which made me smile a great deal, as it cycled perfectly.

Oh, Wisconsin fought well Saturday night in the BIG10 championship, which I stayed up to watch. The Rose Bowl is not a bad consolation prize for the badgers. Clemson awaits the Buckeyes and that should be good. Right now I'm hoping for loads more Bengal loses so they can draft Joe Burrows from LSU with the first pick. I worked Saturday morning, mulched leaves in the front yard with the mower and watched football for the rest of the day, so I'm beat. Had the bucks put away the badgers early, my stress levels would be a lot lower, but Nooooo!

Got a CNC lathe program to debug live and a CNC mill to run at the same time tomorrow, so I'm resting my poor acorn sized brain. I expect numerous errors in my program to work out before making chips. If the fingers type the wrong number, Mr. carbide tool tends to go places you don't want it to go, mostly into solid metal objects spinning at several thousand RPMs. I get far too much excitement in my life. Figuring out why explosive objects don't go bang just adds to my day.

Best Regards,

Mark

BTW, I go to bed happy as the Bengals have continued to bungle for Burrow by losing to Cleveland. Time to root for the NYC Giants tomorrow.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

Looks like I will invest in a heavier bullet mould. The length difference was approximately .100". Hopefully that will solve the problem. 1.125 verses 1.025 for overall length.

Best Regards,

Mark

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by 72 usmc »

Venturing used OAL 1.194 with bullet from RCBS mold 32-84RN , 81 grain bullet. Military cases vary OAL 1.190-1.198. Why so short 1.125 rather than 1.19- ??
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

SWIHARTMARK
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm
Age: 54
Location: DAYTON, OHIO

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by SWIHARTMARK »

I think that is the length that fit the chamber. Originally it was longer, but the rounds would not go into the chamber all the way. I performed this task with the barrel out of the gun. A bigger bullet should be better either way since the mould I have is too small/light. I usually use Lee moulds if available. Aluminum isn't horrible really. NOE even has brass moulds for $$$. If they made a .330 for 8mm Lebel, I'd invest in one, but NOOOOOOOOOO.....

Best Regards,

Mark

BTW, I'm getting close to turning a 1/2 ton arbor press into a bullet sizer. I few reamed location holes here, a few dowel pins there and I'm in business. Figure I will just squish them all the way through the sizing die with no up stroke. I have a Lyman press without a working luber, but it works for my purposes....so far.

Tuna
Member
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 am
Location: New Bern NC

Re: 7.65 French Long.

Post by Tuna »

I've had three boxes of original French long from the early 1950's for years. Of course none of it would go bang so I pulled a full box and used the powder and bullets in new Starline cases. It made some very nice ammo and it shot very well with an excellent group. So two more boxes to go and some normal reloads with a 90 gr. Hornady HP using 3.5 grs. of Unique shoots nice too. I am enjoying shooting both my 1935 A and my 1935 S.

Post Reply

Return to “French Pistols”