Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

7.65 French Long.

Les Révolvers et Pistolets de Militaires Français, Mle.1873, 1892, 1935, Unique, Ruby, et alia
Message
Author
72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#61 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:10 pm

Here are views of the cartridges next to each other. The cuts to the Starline brass match up with the original cartridges. I speculate this is why they work in all pistols. I found no report of ejection problems at rapid fire, jams, or bottlenecked cases with Starline brass. If you do, I would look to the pistol's recoil spring or ejector. Or your load OAL and powder.
A comparison of the original steel case, .32 French long and the Steinel/Starline brass case ammunition.
IMG_2532.jpg
IMG_2533.jpg
IMG_2534.jpg
IMG_2535.jpg
IMG_2536.jpg


SWIHARTMARK is saying :
I just pushed the bullets deeper into their cases and now they all fit the chamber. It appears that the case rests on a shoulder inside the chamber, so case length seems to be critical, not overall length. At least, that is how I see it when I put the bullets into the chamber with me just holding the barrel and doing it manually.
So I measured the cartridge length on ten military cartridges and ten Steinel cartridges;
RESULTS:

French Military Steel cases
.777
.770
.775
.776
.780
.775
.778
.776
.774
.777
Average .7758 or round up to 0.776 inch for the case length. Military OAL is listed as 1.191 inch. Note most of my specimens were a wee bit longer than this and OAL differed by year & factory.

Steinel/ Starline brass cases
.771
.772
.774
.771
.772
.772
.773
.772
.773
.773
Average .7723 or round down to 0.772 inches for the case length. Steinel uses OAL of 1.185 inch.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#62 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:17 pm

To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#63 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:08 pm

For those that have never reloaded or use the ancient, single stage, RCBS press. THE PROCESS with Starline .32 French Brass using old French, steel case, rounds for a powder and bullet source. These all have have dead primers (ATS 1947 headstamp). French primers seem to decay and not fire after 30 years in French ammo.
The high tech, experienced reloaders will get a good laugh on this post :lol: :lol:
The steps & videos my help a few new to reloading. :think:


So I took down 25 French steel cases using the RCBS bullet puller in one press (RCBS JR.) and poured the powder and seated the original bullet into the new Starline brass using an OAL of 1.185. Some of the French bullets were out of spec. I used my second, old, manual, single stage press, a RCBS Jr with CH4D French.32 long special order dies to reload my new Starline brass.

First, I resized the new brass. For the boots :arrow: :arrow: here is a nice video how to set a sizing die in an old RCBS press: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czUq3uVSUuw
or see this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRXiI5TDUb0

Next, I set the primer into the brass. see this video with the ancient single stage press https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTBvzVZozW8


Then the bullet would not fit into the newly resized brass, so I belled out the case with the expanding die. see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ALRnpki2g

Next, I pulled the bullet from a French steel case with my RCBS universal bullet puller. These are .309 inches. Some bullets were bad. This powder and bullet was discarded. On the good cartridges, I poured the powder into the new Starline case and set the French bullet into the expanded case. see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kccYUqCW2c


Now I am ready to seat and crimp the cartridge. I had to set up my seating & crimp die. See these videos,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJp9WZaHbjU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyRdqY9HUrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY60qCMIktE
The crimp produced by the die is not as strong as the original French ammo's crimp. But the bullet does not push back into the newly reloaded Starline case.


Then, as I did each cartridge, I measured the OAL to be sure it was correct for each cartridge as it came off the press. see video if needed;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBKvxZL6jBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNjiX-OKiWQ

Results: I got 25 reloaded cases with original French powder and bullets to compare to my Steinel ammunition. We shall see the results when it actually stops snowing and is somewhat warm. In theory they should go bang- I was wondering if I should use 1.185 or 1.180 inch for OAL . I will fit each into a barrel tomorrow.

Finished cartridges
IMG_2540.jpg
IMG_2541.jpg

The old French cases had poor quality control on bullets. I show these deformed bullets in a picture below. (not used) I will make dummy rounds with these garbage bullets and left over cases. :clap:
IMG_2538.jpg
IMG_2539.jpg
The old dogs I had since the 1960s, RCBS JR presses :clap:
IMG_2542.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#64 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:13 pm

I got my barrel out and fit the unprimed, unloaded, starling brass, the original French steel case ammo, the Steinel factory ammo, and my reloaded Starline brass with 1.180 OAL and original French bullet tips with its powder.
So here are 3 views of unloaded , unprimed Starline cases pulled out of the bag ( not resized)
IMG_2569. unprimed starline 1.jpg
IMG_2570 unprimed starline 2.jpg
IMG_2571 unprimed starline 3 .jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#65 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:17 pm

Here are the views of the French .32 long steel case, original ammunition's fit.
IMG_2561 steel 1.jpg
IMG_2562 steel 2.jpg
IMG_2563 steel 3.jpg
IMG_2564 steel 4.jpg
IMG_2555 steel 5 .jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#66 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:20 pm

Here are views of the factory Steinel ammunition's fit.
IMG_2558 steinel 1.jpg
IMG_2559  steinel 2.jpg
IMG_2565.steinel 4.jpg
IMG_2566 steinel 5.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#67 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:26 pm

Here are Fit views of my reloaded Starline cartridges using the original pulled French bullets & powder with an OAL of 1.185 inch. Looks a little high??. I used CH4D special order French .32 Long dies. Cases were resized prior to priming with CCI small pistol primers.

IMG_2556 reloaded 1.jpg
IMG_2557 reloaded 2.jpg
IMG_2560 (reloadded 3 .jpg
IMG_2567 reloaded 4 .jpg
IMG_2570 reloaded 5.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#68 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:48 pm

Here are Fit views of my reloaded Starline cartridges using the original pulled French bullets & powder with an OAL of 1.180 inch. Looks a little Better of a fit, more like the Steinel cartridges. OAL best, seems to be 1.180 inch. Moral of the store, try a fit with the barrels :lol:
:doh: :think:
While both might fire fine, I just went a wee bit shorter. lf it gets to 45 degrees, I may try to shoot off some and see the results?????
IMG_2582.1.180  1.jpg
IMG_2581 1.180   2.jpg
IMG_2576.1.180   3.jpg
IMG_2578 1.180  4.jpg
IMG_25801.180   5.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#69 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:50 pm

Here is a very interesting study of original French .32 long steel cartridges that were taken down as a sample which I found on Gunboards that was posted by author NoTimeLikeNow . I put this Quote into a google document so all can view just this one post. Just too much great information like this just vanishes and I wanted an electronic copy of this work. I could not copy it as a direct quote due to pictures & charts not showing up to view. The five sample headstamps and dates in order of appearance are:
ATS 1948
VE 1946
VE FY 1 50 (1950)
ATS 1946
ATS 1947
Cartridge Table order across the bottom is:
DK Blue dot ATS 1948, Brown dot VE 1946, Green dot VE FY 1 50 (1950), Purple dot ATS 1946, Lt Blue dot ATS 1947

Measurements in inches are along the right side. The Green line is nominal, Yellow line is minimum, and the red line is the maximum on the charts.
The author measured the following in tables 1-7
Table 1 Steel projectile diameter
Table 2 Mouth diameter
Table 3 Base diameter
Table 4 Extraction groove dia.
Table 5 Rim diameter
Table 6 OAL
Table 7 Case length

Here is the original primary source of No Time Like Now's post found near the bottom of page 1:
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... -65-Longue

Also see page 2 for his powder experiments & charts for reloading, some great stuff. This entire post is worth a PDF download to save the info.

In case the source goes down, Here is also a google document view of the information:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yZs ... sp=sharing

I noticed in both links a non member viewer can not enlarge the charts.
For those that can not enlarge the 7 tables, here are clear screen shots from the source (click on each one and they enlarge to view) :
Many thanks to the author- NoTimeLikeNow & gun boards. This is some great information to share about French pistol ammunition. These are screen shots of NoTimeLikeNow's original tables. Consider them as Quotes with proper credit given and a job well done Mr Science. :clap:
Table 1 Steel projectile diameter
Screen Shot table 1  .png
Table 2 Mouth diameter
Screen Shot  table 2 .png
Table 3 Base diameter
Screen Shot  table 3.png
Table 4 Extraction groove dia.
Screen Shot  table 4 .png
Table 5 Rim diameter
Screen Shot table 5   .png
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:42 pm, edited 13 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: 7.65 French Long.

#70 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:51 pm

Table 6 Overall case length ( OAL )
Screen Shot table 6.png
Table 7 Case length
Screen Shot  table 7 .png
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

Post Reply

Return to “French Pistols”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests