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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:35 pm 
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Any of the "S" marked rifle are safe to shoot with the .323 later 8mm loads. The throat and lead was in fact opened up/lengthen to reduce chamber pressures. ( Think what Roy Weatherby did to develop his Magnum rifle calibers and rifle chambers)These rifles were shot and shot a lot with what ammo????? Ah.... Turk? Huuuummm.
Think about that.
I have a "few" of these rifles in my collection and shoot them using the Romanian steel cased 150 grain and they shoot very well.
I don't shoot the Turk ammo,not because it will blow up the rifle, I use the ammo in my long range rifles only as it is loaded to German specs.
Shooting a .323 in a Non-S marked rifle would not be good to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:39 pm 
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I would think shooting heavy ball - 196gr - .323 a bad idea in these rifles. My understanding is the WW1 150 gr bullet was designed to work safely in them. Mild Romania light ball probably fine also.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:02 am 
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Mwt wrote:
I would think shooting heavy ball - 196gr - .323 a bad idea in these rifles. My understanding is the WW1 150 gr bullet was designed to work safely in them. Mild Romania light ball probably fine also.

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Would that apply to the 88/05/38 which is the rifle at the beginning of the post. These have been refurbished, restocked and rebarrelled in the late 30s
to standardise with other mausers in their armouries using the 8mm ammo at the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:29 am 
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Shooting " any" .323 8mm ammo in a S marked rifle is a real bad idea . Many S marked rifles have Czech .316 - 17 groove barrels on them and where made for a .3158 dia bullet [ just measure some of the Czech made gew-88 ammo ] . Most will not even chamber some of that ammo , but some will . Even the German Gew88 was never intended to fire any .323 bullets , the S ammo was designed for the rifle and had a .321 dia bullet [ just measure an original round ] . The Gew88 was out of German service before the .323 dia Ss ammo was standard issue . The throat was not lenghtened , S marked and non S marked rifles chamber cast the same [ just chamber cast 5 of each ] . Plus there was no reason the do that as the old chamber leade made for the original P ammo long round nose bullet was already 3x longer than needed for the much shorter S bullet . And the original groove size was .321 as was the "new" .321 dia S bullet , so no need to "squeeze down " anything . Romanian ammo has a .321 dia bullet , just measure some . The turked 88-35 has a new made Czech .323 groove barrel on it . Older US made and marked 8x57mm ammo had a .321 dia bullet because they did know what size the grooves were on the Gew-88 rifle .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:36 pm 
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For several years I have fired my S-marked 1895 Danzig with .323 bullets and had no apparent problems, but following the above discussion decided to try .321 bullets.

I got a box of 170 gr. roundnose .321 bullets from Midway. The .321 bullet will slide right thru the neck of a case sized with 8mm Mauser dies. Fortunately I have a .32 S&W die. I tapped the cases just 1/8" into the die and this reduced the necks sufficiently to firmly hold the .321 bullets.

I took them to the range today and got great accuracy: 25 shots in a 3" circle at 50 yards.

I'll use .321 from now on and thanks for the tip.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:03 pm 
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nrobertb wrote:
For several years I have fired my S-marked 1895 Danzig with .323 bullets and had no apparent problems, but following the above discussion decided to try .321 bullets.

I got a box of 170 gr. roundnose .321 bullets from Midway. The .321 bullet will slide right thru the neck of a case sized with 8mm Mauser dies. Fortunately I have a .32 S&W die. I tapped the cases just 1/8" into the die and this reduced the necks sufficiently to firmly hold the .321 bullets.

I took them to the range today and got great accuracy: 25 shots in a 3" circle at 50 yards.

I'll use .321 from now on and thanks for the tip.


A couple of the youtube videos that I have watched about the 1888/05 "S" marked rifles speculate that the rifles that will not safely fire the .323 rounds have been weeded out by military use. Probably still advisable to swage the bore of a rifle that you have not fired before anyway, though.

I must say, as a youngster of 62, it is encouraging to see someone in their late '70s still actively shooting, reloading, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:11 pm 
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Explain "weeded out of service " . Since the rifles were all out of German service BEFORE a .323 dia bullet became standard issue , the S ammo is a different bullet [ weight and dia ] than the .323 dia
Ss bullet . German military Gew-88 rifles were never intended to fire .323 dia Ss ammo . The Hornady .321 dia Win Spl bullet is about 3x more accurate in 88's than the Speer .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:15 pm 
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slowbob wrote:
Explain "weeded out of service " . Since the rifles were all out of German service BEFORE a .323 dia bullet became standard issue , the S ammo is a different bullet [ weight and dia ] than the .323 dia
Ss bullet . German military Gew-88 rifles were never intended to fire .323 dia Ss ammo . The Hornady .321 dia Win Spl bullet is about 3x more accurate in 88's than the Speer .


"weeded out of service" = catastrophic failure

@Mil-Surp Psychosis: Curious what the patch on your Avatar buckle is? Mine is 10th Air Cavalry..


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Since the .323 bullet and the rifle were never in service at the same time , How would the .323 bullet weed out the rifle ? Also why are there no German records of massive 88-05 failures ? All the German military rifle service records, year to year , are still in Germany .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:36 pm 
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My avatar is the 82nd artillery. I was in it in South Korea in the early 1960's. It was one of the units of the First Cavalry Division. At that time we still had towed howitzers but they were in the process of replacing them with self propelled guns.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:50 pm 
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slowbob wrote:
Since the .323 bullet and the rifle were never in service at the same time , How would the .323 bullet weed out the rifle ? Also why are there no German records of massive 88-05 failures ? All the German military rifle service records, year to year , are still in Germany .


The .318 bullet was replaced by the .323 bullet in 1905.

http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/8_8mm.html

The 1888/05 rifles were widely used by the German front line units until 1915, when enough 1898 models were available. Many 88/05 rifles were given to German second line and reserve units and eventually many were given to the Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire. The 88/05 rifles were in "active service in second-line units, reserves, and in armies allied with the Germans through and well past World War I."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_18 ... ce_history


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:44 am 
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I got these 200+gn bullets years ago and as my 88's have the "tight" .317 ( circle "C" ) bores these are fine, for others I cast .325 and have fun ,,,,, :twisted:
No idea who made them , maybe norma or Woodleigh , I don't know,,,

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:47 pm 
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The bullet you are talking about is not .323 , it is .321 dia . I have hundreds of original rounds and the bullets are all .321 . It is not a .323 dia bullet . It was designed to be fired in the Gew-88 rifle , not to " blow" them up . It was not 1905 on the S ammo . The 88-05 rifle update was nothing to do with the S ammo . The 1905 updated rifles got new made sights and they were set up for the older P .3188 bullet .Just look at an original unground 05 sight . That is why most all of them have had those sights regound for the S ammo at a later date . JUST look , you can clearly see the old sight lines on the regound sights . The Austro-Hungarian army Never used 88/05 rifles , just plain Gew-88 rifles . Just look at all the old photos , the original German shipping records , and the A-H army records . Those are all real facts from real ammo , rifles , and records that do exist . It does not matter what incorrect information some one posted on wiki . Shooting .318 Woodleigh thick jacketed , high friction , dangerous game bullets made for a different rifle in a barrel made to fire .3158 dia bullets is not a good idea either .


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:07 pm 
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where do i get .3158" dia bullets from ..?. :evil: :roll: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:52 pm 
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The only ones I have ever seen are used in Pre WWI German commercial sporting ammo and the
Czech ammo made for the Czech Gew-88 barrels . It would be nice if someone made some now . But since so much bad information about Gew-88 rifles is passed around , people do not know what is the correct ammo and are happy to buy the wrong stuff , so that is what is made . Because it sells .


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