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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:01 pm 
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BTW, gonna double check links and such for this soon. No new info but will put out feelers. Stashbox is down every time I check so may need to find a new place to store the page.

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:39 am 
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Thanks for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:47 am 
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Happy to oblige and thanks. :)

Looks like Stashbox.org is going down at the end of the month. I'm looking around for a replacement that isn't a quasi-pirate site.

Work has kept me insanely busy but I'll find something. :)

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"Vertroue in God en die Mauser".-Faith in God and the Mauser.

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:32 pm 
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It lives!
I had to shuffle everything over to Google Sites but it's good to go.
Amazingly only 3 of my picture links were broken. :)


https://sites.google.com/site/steyrclips/


Thanks to all that have helped with information and those that have expressed their support. :)

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:17 am 
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Guys I just got some great info from JJE over at the International Ammunition Association. enfield 56 also provided me with some pics. I'll have them added in soon. :)

Quote:
This is a good summary of these Mannlicher clips. I have just a few corrections to suggest regarding some of the marks and manufacturers, based on the information to be found on this rather complicated subject in Josef Mötz's Österreichischer Militärpatronen books.

1. Phil Butler's photo of the single-headed Republican Eagle in fact shows the second type, in which the eagle carries a hammer and a sickle in its claws, and has a "civic" crown (not clearly seen in the photo) rather like the castellations round the top of a Castle chess-piece. This replaced the first type, which was plain and uncrowned, in 1928, and was used as the Austrian State Emblem until 1934 when it was in its turn replaced by the double-headed, uncrowned, Corporate State Eagle.

As the second type of Republican Eagle was in use from 1928 to 1934, clips with this mark were made by or for Patronenfabrik Lichtenwörth AG, which was the designated State Factory (Staatsfabriken) for small arms ammunition manufacture at the time. This was the name adopted by Georg Roth's Lichtenwörth plant following the collapse of the Roth empire in 1928. They were taken over by Hirtenberger in 1933.

Hence this clip was not used by Wöllersdorf Munitionsfabrik, which was a government plant situated just outside Wiener Neustadt, about 40km south of Vienna. It ceased producing military ammunition at the end of WW1, and was then privatised as Wöllersdorf Werke AG. It continued to produce some commercial ammunition, including 8mm M.93 Mannlicher, and used the "w-in-W" monogram as its headstamp. I have never seen any reference to a clip bearing the "w-in-W" mark, and I suppose it may have still used the "MF" clip. However, all ammunition manufacture at Wöllersdorf finally ceased in 1925.

2. Re. the "MF" mark, see the above paragraph, showing that Wöllersdorf ceased manufacturing military cartridges at the end of WW1 and ceased all ammunition production in 1925.


Also, this from an Italian forum, http://www.worldwarforum.net/ !

Quote:
Hi Zeliard
La Precisa is the name of factory located in Lazio, near Roma. During ww2 made fuzes, clips etc... after ww2 it continued production including hand grenades.

SMI, società metallurgica italiana. there weere 2 different factories. Fornaci di Barga (Lucca), and Campo Tizzoro (Pistoia).
The marking CT, means Campo Tizzoro. It was an early marking and was often omitted.
best regards


YES! Those are now narrowed down! WOO! :)

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:01 am 
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More information has been added, place and factory names & dates corrected and new pictures available (SMI & P in circle). Since it's google sites the address stays the same. :)

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:17 pm 
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If the site is going away, how about posting the latest list here... Thanks.
Quote:


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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:38 am 
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It's over at Google Sites now. :)

https://sites.google.com/site/steyrclips/

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Proud alumni of Transylvanian Polygnostic University. "Know enough to be afraid."

"Vertroue in God en die Mauser".-Faith in God and the Mauser.

"Send lawyers, guns and money." -Warren Zevon


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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:57 am 
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OK, thanks. :)


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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Just concluded a deal from someone on another board who shipped me 50 rounds of Steyr ammo on 10 clips. The cartridges were all headstamped 1938 with Nazi markings, and the clips all had Nazi markings. Not too bad for $50 shipped.


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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:41 am 
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Hello folks,

I have a lead on a possible new clip marking, an "L". However, the images are over at Gunboards and I can't get in using my old username and password.Waiting on confirmation to be sent for a new user name & password so hopefully I can add to the list soon. If not...I may need to beg for some assistance. ^_^

I removed the unconfirmed listing because A) For many of them there weren't even rumors, just head stamps (and most of those seemed to be from 11mm Werndl ammo) and B) If I listed every ammo manufacturer the list would get out of hand quickly for no noticeable gain. Germany alone would take up pages and pages.

There are now links to the Known markings, unknown manufacturers section (all of one clip) and the Unmarked section.

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:44 pm 
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OK, cool, I was able to log in and see the clip. I haven't added it yet since I'm waiting on permission from the owner. In the meantime it's an L within a circle and i have no information on it. The game is afoot!

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:53 pm 
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OK, I'm starting to think the L in circle may be Lignose A.-G., Berlin, Germany. I'm basing this on a much more cursive L found on pinfire headstamps.

Seems like Lorenz was likely sold before this ammunition was made and he went on to Daimler so I don't think it was Lorenz Patronenfabrik, Karlsruhe, Germany.

It's also possible that it's Lindener Zündhütchen-und Thonwarenfabrik, Hannover, Germany. I found this information from a German site with history on the area, but it gets a bit confusing thanks to the translation:

Quote:
The Linden primer and Thonwarenfabrik was by Johann Georg Heinrich Egestorff (1802-1868) founded in 1861 at Lindener Berg. After Egestorffs death in 1868 the company by his son Johann Friedrich August Buresch was conducted (1821-1885). He was Privy Councillor of Commerce and in 1856 married George Egestorffs daughter Georgina Wilhelmina (1836-1904). In 1872 he was named along with his brother Johann Georg Friedrich Adolph Hurtzig (1825-1897), short Fritz, a member of the Board of the newly created George Egestorff salt Werke AG. From 1874 until his death on 7th October 1885 he was president of the Chamber of Commerce. Friedrich Buresch also owned the 1868 built and preserved villa. In the From-Old-Allee 4 to 6

The factory was located at the Hamelin Road (now Hanomagstraße / Bornumer / Am Ihlpohl), now located on the site allotments. One primer set, metal cartridges and clays ago for export to England. In 1861, the company set up in the yard of their brick in Empelde at Hanover a branch operation. In 1879 the company was converted into a public limited company. In 1914, the factory because of the danger, the products installed on a free field according Empelde. During World War I made it even explosives and ammunition, exclusively for the military.

In 1921, a second administration building HANOMAG AG was built on the site of the former Zündhütchenfabrik. 1925 took over the operation of the Dynamit Nobel AG, but already 1928, Dynamit Nobel AG stopped the work.

1938 witnessed in the general rearmament in Germany to resume operation. Now been made squibs and detonators and cartridges and shells for anti-aircraft, anti-tank and infantry ammunition. In that time, the factory in Empelde became one of the largest defense companies in the field of Armaments Command Hanover. In 1944, about 3,800 workers were employed. Many foreign and forced laborers were employed in the local camps were 1,500 people housed. With the end of the war came the closure of Empelder work, part of the production facilities were dismantled and the factory was closed.

In 1983, the surviving bunkers and buildings were demolished on the grounds of the park was living at the lake. Only when even residential buildings were built and inhabited by the powerful tests of the soil contamination is known. The Hannover region and the city Ronnenberg / Empelde then started with the soil remediation. 1999 has been named as interim state that the ordnance disposal service has rescued about six tons of ammunition and explosives. Today, two more historic buildings are on the northern edge of the former plant site, an administrative building that is used by a company and a residential building.


Another site said that Lindener took over the operations of Bergmann in 1921, which is within the time frame when this ammunition was still being made. However, Bergmann made pistols and most references to Lindener are for shotgun and pistol ammo.

However, at this point I'm completely speculating with no hard evidence to be found. :|

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Folks,
It's been confirmed that the L marking is Ludwig Loewe & Company, Berlin, Germany. Merged in 1896 with Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik (DM), Karlsruhe, Baden, Germany to form Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken Aktien-Gesellschaft (DWM).

Windisch et al, in the chapter on "Patronenrahmen und Ladestreifen" in their book "Von der Patrone 88 zur Patrone S", refer to the mark "L" being on M.88 clips from Ludwig Lowe of Berlin.


It's been added to the list!

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"Vertroue in God en die Mauser".-Faith in God and the Mauser.

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 Post subject: Re: m95 clip markings
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Good news! The owner of the Loewe clip gave me permission to use his image so I've added it to the list.

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