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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:37 am 
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Mil-Surp Collector
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Something you don't see every day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsUALdGo ... e=youtu.be

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:42 pm 
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It looks like one of the SIA repros?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:02 pm 
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My own thoughts on a similar conversion would be to use the No.4 action. The extension of the barrel and shortened bolt body would work the same, but I was figuring on converting a magazine body to make the rear half of the mag a double row staggered feed mag. Not sure how well that would work. The front of the mag would be trimmed down for clearance. With the mag in place it would require a close look to see that it wasn't a regular NO.4 action.

I figured on a slimmer and longer built on Suppressor tube, giving the finished product the look of a No.4 actioned bullbarrel target rifle. OAL would be much longer than that of a DeLise, but not so easily spoted as what it is.

A Suppressed No.4 in .45 ACP was marketed long ago, but it used the standard unaltered bolt with no extension of the breech.

A friend suggested that the .45 Colt revolver cartridge would be a better cartridge for this purpose, heavier bullets at around the same velocity. Of course the ACP cartridges were much more available.

Closest to the Delise in a modern commercial rifle was a Police sharpshooter rifle built on the Remington 788 bolt action , the variant made for the .44 Magnum cartridge. Converted to .45 ACP with a slim built on tube like I suggested it seemed very effective.

A special forces suppressed rifle using a specialized cartridge based on the .458 Magnum was tried out in Vietnam. The belted case was cut short and it used a FMJ 500 gr bullet for maximum energy at subsonic velocities.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:38 am 
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Ray - Interesting video, thanks for posting. Wouldn't mind having one of those myself.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:59 am 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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These are available from Chris at C&G Firearms..I have one of his "new" SMLE's built on a 1939 receiver and it really is very good, but of course it has no history. :(

http://www.cgfirearms.co.uk/Detailed.as ... 840~Page~0


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:46 am 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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A very nicely done repro though I think I see a couple of improvements in the design, not to mention the use of stainless steel barrels and baffles. Of course these are not intended to pass for the real thing on close inspection.

Just remembered some unusual features of the suppressed .45 No.4 rifle once marketed, in the 80's or 90's I think.
The bolt remained full length. The pistol magazine was located at the front of a No.4 magazine body.
When the bolt was retracted slowly after firing you had the option of pushing the expended case downwards to drop free of the extractor into an open well formed by the rear of the magazine. This was advertised as a method of not leaving empty cases behind to give away the firers last position.
If I recall correctly the fore end was not in two pieces.

Another thing I remembered is that Indian Police have used a silenced .22RF carbine built on the SMLE action. These were used to snipe the ring leaders of riots. Sniping unarmed rioters is not considered kosher in most countries but has been done in the UK years ago, with understandable outrage. It was not uncommon at all pre WW2 in the United States.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Quote:
Sniping unarmed rioters is not considered kosher in most countries but has been done in the UK years ago

Can you give me a concrete example, please?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:50 am 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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Quote:
Can you give me a concrete example, please?


Bloody Sunday 1972
"The Saville Inquiry, chaired by Lord Saville of Newdigate, was established in 1998 to reinvestigate the incident. Following a 12-year inquiry, Saville's report was made public in 2010 and concluded that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Theres another incident I remember involving a soldier using a silenced .22 rifle to shoot demonstrators but that will take awhile to look up.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
Another thing I remembered is that Indian Police have used a silenced .22RF carbine built on the SMLE action. These were used to snipe the ring leaders of riots. Sniping unarmed rioters is not considered kosher in most countries but has been done in the UK years ago, with understandable outrage.

I'm well aware of Bloody Sunday & the massacre, but I see no correspondence to the above remark?
It was a stone throwing riot, during a civil war, not a protest.
There was random fire into the rioting crowd, not selectively shooting ringleaders. Many of the rounds fired were "from the hip at close range" hardly "sniping"!

The firearms used would have been the standard Ess Ell Arr non-suppressed 7.62m NATO rifle, Sterling 9mm sub machine gun & Browning P35, also in 9mm & not suppressed. not a suppressed .22 RF version of the Lee Enfield.
What am I missing?.

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"Ah, fer sure Oi'll kneecap 'im for you sor. But it'll be runnin' yourself a 12 pack of Guinness & a sack of tatties!"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:32 pm 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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Image
Don't know if this image will show. its the Indian .22 version of the Delise in action.

Not sure about the method of conversion used for these. A member of another board once posted images of his Indian police SMLE in .410 that came with a .22 conversion kit consisting of .22 barrel liner and rim fire bolt head and firing pin. I don't remember if it was single shot only or had some sort of magazine.


You didn't specify suppressed .22 weapons in regard to British police or military shooting rioters. I mentioned the use of the Silenced .22 Rimfire conversion of the SMLE only in respect to Indian police having used these.

The Israeli Police have in the past and more recently used silenced .22 caliber Ruger 10/22 rifles to injure rioters. They mainly shoot at the legs but apparently there have been fatal wounds.
The Russians are also believed to use silenced .22 rifles against rioters.

Found this snipet.
http://www.onthisday.com/countries/unit ... nd/belfast
Quote:
1972-07-09 Springhill Massacre: British snipers shoot dead five Catholic civilians and wounded two others in Springhill, Belfast.

The men and one thirteen year old girl were unarmed and posed no threat to the army sniper team. A Priest who witnessed the first shootings was shot dead while trying to help a wounded man.
Not the only incidence of British Army snipers killing unarmed civilians in such a manner.


"Many of the rounds fired were "from the hip at close range" hardly "sniping"!"

The report mentions only one soldier seen firing "from the hip". One of the victims was shot in the back twice, once while fleeing, the second shot as he lay paralyzed and helpless on the ground.
I found a PDF of one report on this incident that listed the L42 sniper rifle as one of the weapons present. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to magnify this file enough to read it easily. I don't know if any of those shot were shot by snipers. I'll add a link to that PDF later.

Other than a window breaking incident early on there's no evidence that any British soldiers were struck by thrown stones or endangered by stone throwers.

The only shots fired by anyone other than the British soldiers were fired after the shootings of the unarmed civilians.

To be clear Bloody Sunday was not in fact the incident I was thinking of at all.
If I still have it I had a magazine with an article about a shooting of a unarmed young man during a demonstration by a British soldier who did use a silenced .22 rifle, though I don't remember the make of the rifle. The story was mostly about the efforts of the boy's mother to find out the truth of the events leading to the shooting.
I've read of a number of incidents of British police and troops firing on demonstrators and strikers in the past, not that I keep a log book of this sort of thing its never been that uncommon on either side of the pond. I'm not even considering the killings of unarmed protestors in Greece in 1944, or the many incidents in India going back many generations before they won their independence, or the murder of Crispus Attuck at the Boston Massacre.

The use of silenced weapons, particularly .22 rifles, by police and military is pretty well established in modern times. The development of less dangerous and more advanced less than lethal weapons has put a dent in their use.
In earlier days the use of small bore shotguns and downloaded gallery cartridges was more common. Turkey has manufactured a .410 gauge replica of the AR-15 rifle with military and police anti-riot use as one selling point.

The subject of the Indian police silenced .22 came up on this board long ago. The thread can be found online but the links to photos and articles are dead. That thread is where I first learned of that Indian police rifle. If I recall correctly Tikkirocker posted the link.

PS
British General in memo suggested shooting ringleaders of "Derry's young hooligans" shortly before the Bloody Sunday shootings.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/mar ... ernireland

He suggested snipers use .22 RF rifles to inflict non life threatening wounds.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/oct ... ernireland

Perhaps a coincidence but the existence of this memo may mean some further down the chain of command believed it was open season.


Back to the DeLise
If this link works theres plenty of information and images on this site.
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/The_DeLisle_carbine.htm

Nice images and information on DeLise's personal .22 RF suppressed carbine built on a Browning autoloader action.


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