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Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:35 am
by KneverKnew
My Lebel cases have been trimmed, annealed and run through my various expander dies (357,40,44) with final sizing in the 41 Swiss sizer die and are ready for fireforming.

My questing is, do I absolutely need to use the typical Unique, COW and wax plug method to fireform, or can I simply go ahead and load live rounds with cast bullets?
I did initial fireforming in my Dutch Beaumont with live ammo and the cases case out very nice, not to mention the ammo was pretty accurate for some butt ugly cases I created from 50/90 Sharps brass.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:48 am
by Rapidrob
Yes you can,but do not use a so-called "light" load as blowback can be rough on your face. Use a full house known load that you have used in the past.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:05 am
by zfk55
Little known or discussed is that with little or no obduration, the k31 bolt provides a perfect channel for blow-back.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:40 pm
by KneverKnew
Rapidrob wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:48 am
Yes you can,but do not use a so-called "light" load as blowback can be rough on your face. Use a full house known load that you have used in the past.
Thanks. I was thinking it would be okay but just wanted to make sure. Based on my research I’ve chosen a starting load of 16.5 grains 2400 under a 320 grain .430 cast bullet. Sound reasonable? These I have loaded in already fireformed cases (Unique/COW) so we will see what these do. I will chrony then. Then will decide if it’s a suitable
Load for fireforming. I may increase some if necessary.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 pm
by zfk55
My kids use 18gr for that projectile weight, but 16.5 will do it, and please post your chrono result.
P

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:43 pm
by Rapidrob
For the large bore and chamber,the loads you list would be fine. If you have not annealed your cases after all the die forming,it would be a good idea to do so. At the cost of the brass cases it is better to have the brass in a soft state for fire-forming.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:54 pm
by KneverKnew
zfk55 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 pm
My kids use 18gr for that projectile weight, but 16.5 will do it, and please post your chrono result.
P
I definitely will post results. I have a LabRadar that makes it easy

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:56 pm
by KneverKnew
Rapidrob wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:43 pm
For the large bore and chamber,the loads you list would be fine. If you have not annealed your cases after all the die forming,it would be a good idea to do so. At the cost of the brass cases it is better to have the brass in a soft state for fire-forming.
Yes that was going to be my last step before loading. I can trim cases in trimmer so am having to do final trim on harbor freight chop saw. But I have that method down pretty good for almost square mouths.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:48 pm
by KneverKnew
I test cycled some rounds I’ve already fireformed and loaded through my M78. None of the cases were long enough to crimp in groove of this particular bullet. I determined the case needs to be 44.95mm to use the crimp groove. The mag tube holds 12 plus one in the chamber makes 13. And since I’m not crimped into the groove, all bullets set back about .011 inches. So now they measure 2.189” or so. They will all be fired single shot. I don’t honk this set back will raise pressures much. My powders loads are 16.5 and 17.2 grains 2400. The rest of my formed cases are waiting for fireforming before I trim to crimp groove length for this bullet.

I want to get a bullet mould for the Vetterli that gives outstanding performance and duplicates the original bullet/ case length (38mm) as much as possible. Can someone tell me what to get please? I doubt I will be firing black powder due to cleanup (and I’m a member of a rendezvousing Blackpowder club!) I’ll be keeping my smokeless loaf around the original 1450 FPS or so. So I will need a bullet design that will fit these parameters. Oh. And I use Alex tumble Lube as well as some home made pan Lube. I think it’s call green lightning or green speed or something. Been a while since I made it.
Thanks for the help.

I hope to shoot Tuesday.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:28 am
by KneverKnew
I decided to load up my formed cases with cream of wheat and wax and save my bullets for when the cases are fire formed.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:34 am
by Rapidrob
Not a bad idea.

Re: Fireforming 41 Swiss (With bullets??)

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:14 pm
by KneverKnew
I couldn’t wait for the range and just shot several. I created another post to track load development.
Swiss M78 Load Development and Results.