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800 yards with the M-1917 again

M1903, M1903A3 and M1917.
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Rapidrob
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800 yards with the M-1917 again

#1 Post by Rapidrob » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:56 am

Was at the range practicing for my 800 yards match this month. Target is our man torso silhouette made from AR550.
I'm using the bullet impact accelerometer that triggers an electronic flash to record a hit I made.
My load has proven to be a real tack driver at long range. It is not a max load,but it is the most accurate load I have used at 800 yards out of this rifle.
175 grain Sierra Match King bullet over 48.0 grains of Reloader-15. LC Match brass, standard Winchester LR primer and the real secret, LEE Factory Crimp Die
I fired 20 rounds in 5-10 MPH crosswinds. I got 15 hits, which if I hand my young eyes back may have been 20 hits. Misses were very close by inches.
What I do since the target is so small to the unaided eye at 800 yards is to set the front sight to shoot 10" to the right at 800 yards and the rear sight just one notch high for bullet impact. This allows me to hold the sights right at the targets 7 o'clock point and see the whole target. If I do my part and dope the wind properly a hit is very easy to do.
IMHO, the M-1917 is one of Americas best battle rifles ever made.
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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#2 Post by Cattus Borealis » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:21 pm

Nice shooting Rob! May I pick your brain?

I am developing a 200 yard reduced recoil 30-06 load for some young people. The rifle is also an M 1917. Would crimping help at this range? What does crimping do for accuracy? I am using a 155 grain hornady HPBT with a canalure.The barrel is a brand new Criterion barrel.

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#3 Post by ammolab » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:27 am

Looks like winds could be 18 MPH for Saturday’s match. Could be a good bit of “left hold” to hit That silhouette!

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#4 Post by hardcore » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 am

outstanding!

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#5 Post by slowbob2 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:21 am

How light of a recoil load are you looking for ? I have some loads that shoot great at 200 yards and would feel almost like a .22 in a heavy rifle like the M-17 . Unless you have problems with your reloading , crimping hurts accuracy . NObody at any higher level accuracy matches crimps anything . An extra 50 lbs of bullet pull makes no difference on a 40,000 + psi load for ignition or anything else , it just deforms . After running military rifle matches for over 15 years and seeing all the sub 1 inch 5-shot 100 yards groups with NO crimp , I can say it does not help .

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#6 Post by Cattus Borealis » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:36 am

OK

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#7 Post by Rapidrob » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:02 am

I crimp,it works and has prove so for decades for me.
You might want to try a cast bullet load. Very accurate and low recoil.
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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#8 Post by Cattus Borealis » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:21 am

Thanks Rob.

I have some .311 sized Lyman 311299s that I can try.

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#9 Post by Charles Lipscomb » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:58 pm

Pretty cool info on sight setting and placement. That had not occured to me. But then i never shot past 100
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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#10 Post by slowbob2 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:11 am

Crimping , that would depend on what you accept for accuracy . Do you really shoot 1 inch 5 - shot groups at 100 yards with your loads in military rifles ? That is what it took to win the small group in about every match we had . Do shoot in national level bench rest matches ? At that level nobody crimps anything . I may work for you at your level of accuracy , but it is not the best way at all .

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#11 Post by ammolab » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:38 am

slowbob2 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:11 am
Crimping , that would depend on what you accept for accuracy . Do you really shoot 1 inch 5 - shot groups at 100 yards with your loads in military rifles ? That is what it took to win the small group in about every match we had . Do shoot in national level bench rest matches ? At that level nobody crimps anything . I may work for you at your level of accuracy , but it is not the best way at all .
As this is a surplus rifle forum, and this thread is about his M1917 30-06...benchrest match levels of accuracy are a different thing altogether. Rob crimps to improve his level of accuracy in his type of rifle/cartridge combination. Understood it doesn’t work for benchrest rifle competition but it has uses in other circumstances.

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#12 Post by slowbob2 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:05 am

Part of what I was talking about was over 15 years of as issued MILITARY rifle matches . None of the top shooters with military rifles crimped anything and it took 1 inch , or less groups to have small group of the match . Good reloading was the key to winning our matches with military rifles . The people who could not reload well [ crimping , wrong loads , wrong bullets and so on ] were never a factor . Unless you have a reloading problem , crimping does not help in any circumstance .

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#13 Post by ammolab » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:03 pm

slowbob2 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:05 am
Part of what I was talking about was over 15 years of as issued MILITARY rifle matches . None of the top shooters with military rifles crimped anything and it took 1 inch , or less groups to have small group of the match . Good reloading was the key to winning our matches with military rifles . The people who could not reload well [ crimping , wrong loads , wrong bullets and so on ] were never a factor . Unless you have a reloading problem , crimping does not help in any circumstance .
Benchrest at 100 yards you are correct, but at 800 yards if crimping reduces extreme spread on your velocity.... IT DOES help. It can reduce vertical stringing on the target. Some us are shooting worn barrels with LONG jumps to the leade of the rifling. This may be one circumstance were crimping may help. Most Surplus rifles are not searching for your MOA benchrest groups.

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#14 Post by slowbob2 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:03 pm

You are not reloading right if it takes a crimp to reduce your extreme spread . With test groups from over 2000 different military rifles of my own , crimping never made any thing better . An additional 30 lbs of bullet pull on a 40,000 psi load is a 0.00075 % increase . Deforming the bullet will more than make up for that . You do not start making pressure until the bullet hits the rifling and the 40,000 psi spike starts , 30 lbs mean nothing . If crimping works for you at your level of shooting , fine , but do not say it is more accurate . Hitting stuff at 800 yards is easy compared to 1 inch 100 yard groups . And yes I have a private range that goes out to 1200 , so I do shoot that far .

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Re: 800 yards with the M-1917 again

#15 Post by ammolab » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:37 pm

slowbob2 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:03 pm
You are not reloading right if it takes a crimp to reduce your extreme spread . With test groups from over 2000 different military rifles of my own , crimping never made any thing better . An additional 30 lbs of bullet pull on a 40,000 psi load is a 0.00075 % increase . Deforming the bullet will more than make up for that . You do not start making pressure until the bullet hits the rifling and the 40,000 psi spike starts , 30 lbs mean nothing . If crimping works for you at your level of shooting , fine , but do not say it is more accurate . Hitting stuff at 800 yards is easy compared to 1 inch 100 yard groups . And yes I have a private range that goes out to 1200 , so I do shoot that far .
Bullet pull as a percentage of chamber pressure? Now there is one totally useless calculation if I ever heard one.

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