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 Post subject: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:33 am 
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From Waldo308

Thought some of you might be interested in this write-up regarding the history of the Imperial Chrysanthemums being defaced on captured Japanese rifles during WWII.

http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/FeatArts/MumMystery/MissingMum.htm#Top_of_Missing_Mum


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:33 pm 
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Thanks for the info Waldo. Without more information, I choose to believe that a wise Gen MacArthur allowed the Japanese to deface the mums because he understood the importance of not disgracing the Japanese emperor.


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Very interesting.A good read.

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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Dugout Doug was sucking up to the emporer, who IMO, should have been strung up.

The Japanese were still stuck in their superstitious 16th century mindset at the time and it was a tool to maintain order.

MacArthur himself assumed a godlike persona amongst the Japanese during the reformation or reconstruction..

He was a megalomaniac who finally self destructed in Korea.

He was responsible for the "overkill" response to the "bonus army." Got some guys killed.

There will be theories on grinding these symbols as long as there are rifles.

Several other countries had similar actions from laws. One example were the beautiful mint M91 Argentine Mausers which had the Argentine crest ground off. Included bayonets.

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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:20 pm 
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The Japanese realized that thier emperor was nuts & put them all in a real bad spot - I can see just why they'd grind off the mums . MacArthur was awesome !

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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Brings to mind something similar happening to the Mosin-Nagants right around the time of the October Revolution - I've seen Nagants with the crest of the Romanov Family (the Double Eagle) ground off. Had a chnce to buy one for sub-$100 but passed. This looks to be a way to historically date some of these long arms...


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Not sure if this should be in a new thread but, on some model 38 rifles the mums were not ground off as much as they were stamped with 8 O's or rings. does anyone know why they did this and if it is only on type 38 rifles, as that is the only rifles i have personally seen it on.
thanks
doug


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:47 pm 
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DougG wrote:
Not sure if this should be in a new thread but, on some model 38 rifles the mums were not ground off as much as they were stamped with 8 O's or rings. does anyone know why they did this and if it is only on type 38 rifles, as that is the only rifles i have personally seen it on.
thanks
doug


You have a school rifle.
I have the same ring of O's around my mum on my type 38.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=45107&p=305568&hilit=my+mum#p305568


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:56 am 
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Very interesting to read how they rifles arrived shipboard, because my father-in-law Bill Stratton, an armorer aboard a carrier at Tokyo (I think "Hornet") was detailed to take a truck and bring one back for everyone on the ship.
He brought the rifles from a large building, bombed or shell damaged on one end, but not completely destroyed.
For himself, he kept a rifle and type 38 carbine. The rifle has disappeared but the carbine I have. Will post pictures another time.
The "mum" is ground, with only a little of its outline visible.

A lot could happen to weapons on the way home, as the article said! A sailor I know landed overnite in an open barracks upon arrival in the USA. Thieves crept through that night, looting everyones' duffle bags as they slept. Jim lost two 1911 45's.


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:23 am 
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Hmm... Interesting read.


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:59 pm 
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i have a question about a type 99 series 20 kokura that has a chrome line bore,aircraft sights and mono pod intact and has a pretty full mum,but missing the dust cover.was this possibly a war captured rifle or a surrender at the wars end? therifle is in nice shape and i recently got it at a local gunshow.any help is great :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:27 am 
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Your 20th series could be both. I have a 3rd series Nagoya with the full mum that was a surrendered gun (the vet who brought it back told me so). Its hard to tell without actually talking to the vet. Dust cover was probably removed by a GI who removed the bolt and didnt know how to put it back in with the DC on.

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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:52 pm 
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The mum question comes up often. Could this be a sticky?


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Thanks for posting the link on the article. Put it in the folder along with my Arisaka 99.


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 Post subject: Re: Ground Mums Info
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:52 pm 
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I got very lucky, my cherry early war type 99 is complete down to the monopod and the 'wings' on the anti-aircraft sights. Only the dustcover is not original and the mum is not defaced in any way. I might try to post pics later.

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