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1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:39 am
by KneverKnew
My rifle range requires us to qualify each rifle at 100 yards to be able to take it out to the 400 yard range. This involves shooting three shots inside a two inch circle on an official target with no other shots on the paper. I am SO close. I shot this group yesterday with my standard worked up hunt load using sierras 120 grain SP’s and 42 grains of IMR 4895. These clock just over 2800 FPS. These were rounds I loaded two years ago and still performed nicely.
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This was a practice group to verify point of impact with my new + front site. I still need to hold a little low to get group inside the circle since my rear site is at its lowest setting. It was after sunset and light was too low when I shot the qual group and I couldn’t keep the rounds inside the circle. I still managed to squeeze out a one inch group even so. I will try again today. I can’t wait to try this rifle at 400 yards.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:52 am
by VMASCIOP2000
115 year old rifle is M.O.A.. Fantastic group with open sights, wow.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:16 pm
by KneverKnew
Thanks. These old Swedes really were the cream of the Mauser crop. Still are for that matter.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:12 pm
by KneverKnew
In anticipation for taking my Swedish Mauser to the 400 yard line I need to do some site adjustment. I currently have my vasteras rear site set at 250 meters which is the lowest setting. With my load using a Sierra 120 grain soft point bullet traveling 2800 feet a second I have POI roughly 2 inches high of POA at 100 yards. Can someone give me an idea what rear site setting I would need in order to get the same load hitting roughly point of aim point of impact at 400 yards? I’m using a +1.5 front site to give me the 100 yard POI.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:25 pm
by Rapidrob
What range makes you own a 2 MOA rifle to shoot 400 yards? Bullets are not stable until they travel 200 yards.
99% of all military rifles are 4 MOA by design. What a load of Road Apples, Come out here and shoot with us,we'd love to have you. you can shoot out to 1,000 yards and your Swede will do just fine

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:46 pm
by sheepdawg
Just so you know the Vasteras sight that bottoms out at 250 meters is calibrated for the m/38s. The one calibrated for the m/96s is much rarer and bottoms out at 100 meters. Your load is also well above IMR's recommended maximum for 4895 of 39.6 grains for 6.5X55.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:28 pm
by lloydiam
I love my Swede's especially my Husqvarna's !.............That is some good shooting KneverKnew !................

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:03 pm
by KneverKnew
I understand the IMR data. I worked up to my current load and psi signs are good. They are at the upper edge but still looks good. This is an excellent hunt load but I am currently working on a Swedish surplus m41 duplicate load. My CG is one that was converted to the 38. I wished there was a way to determine when that conversion took place. Thanks for the kind words lloydiam.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:05 pm
by sheepdawg
The 96s were converted to 38s from 1937 to 1940. Husqvarna then came out with the purpose made 38s in 41. Something like 55,000 96s were converted.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:31 pm
by lloydiam
Husqvarna 96's were produced from 42 to 44 in which only 20,000 were ever produced, and I have one, #'s matching, and YES I am bragging !.............

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:09 pm
by KneverKnew
lloydiam wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Husqvarna 96's were produced from 42 to 44 in which only 20,000 were ever produced, and I have one, #'s matching, and YES I am bragging !.............
Glad you got one. I got one after having my CG 96/38 a while. Ended up selling it. Probably shouldn’t have. But my 96/38 keeps making me happy. And of course then there’s my ag42b. 😁

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:01 am
by polaris
KneverKnew wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:03 pm
I understand the IMR data. I worked up to my current load and psi signs are good. They are at the upper edge but still looks good. This is an excellent hunt load but I am currently working on a Swedish surplus m41 duplicate load. My CG is one that was converted to the 38. I wished there was a way to determine when that conversion took place. Thanks for the kind words lloydiam.
I have to agree with sheepdawg. Assuming a linear relationship (a big assumption) you're running in the 56000 CUP range, which is Pmax for a 264 Win mag. Not sure what you mean by the "upper edge" of pressure signs, but usually any pressure signs are where you want to back off a touch. There are other powders that will get you that 200 fps of velocity without pushing your rifle and brass beyond safe limits.

I've been shooting 44gr IMR4350, 140 gr Hor HPBT, PRVI or Norma brass for several years. Superbly accurate to 600 yards and a bit on the warm side but within limits of published data. This powder will also run your 120s at a higher speed within the published max. This load seems to track pretty close to my sight adjustments.

Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:23 am
by KneverKnew
First, I want to thank everyone for their helpful comments with regard to this post.
I've been reviewing my load data I worked up many years ago, and agree my load exceeds the Hodgdon published max. I've been shooting this load for hunting and targets in excess of twenty five years now with outstanding results and many reloads from the same cases. The pressure signs, as I observe them, in my fired cases with this load are primers that are flattened but still showing a slight remaining radius around the edges. Really, nothing more significant than what I've seen from firing the M41 surplus ammo. There are no primers coming out of the pockets and no cratering around the firing pin mark. I do not shoot these loads regularly though. I had this one box of twenty left over from two years ago and decided to give them a try in efforts to qualify my rifle for the 400 yard line. Obviously they still perform well. I also noted that these loads show even less primer flattening when tested in colder weather during hunting season as would be expected. That being said, i still have a number of these 120's projectiles left and will reduce my load to the listed max to see if it will give similar results. My load data shows i did not try the 39.6 load listed. This will be secondary, though, to my latest efforts to duplicate, or surpass, the performance of the M41 surplus ammo with the 143 grain bullets. Actually, I have a box of Hornady's new 147 grain VLD red tip boat tails I want to try. Unfortunately my Hornady #9 book only shows 140's. I'm sure I could interpolate a reasonable starting load from this data, but was hoping someone here might have the latest book that shows the new 147's data??? I would appreciate any help. Powders I am using for testing are IMR4895, 4064, Varget, Re-15 and Re-22. I have others but this is the main group I usually use for this cartridge. As mentioned in the OP, I was a load that works equally well in both the C96/38, as well as my ag42B Ljungman. I do have the gas adjustment screw installed in the gas block of the Lj so I believe the excessive port pressures caused by using the Re-22 will not be an issue. If anyone has any thoughts contrary to my comments, please chime in. Thanks.

By the way, here are the latest pics of my Carl G. after stripping the old polyurethane finish I did so many years ago and this time using the more traditional Linseed Oil. I actually started rubbing in Raw Linseed and then used BLO for the last few coats. Please don't hate me for sanding the stock. I did it in the foolish days of my youth. And yes, I did the same thing to the Ljungman some 25 years ago as well. I am currently refinishing it with Linseed Oil and will post pictures when the job is done.

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Re: 1903 Carl Gustaf still kicking butt!

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:06 pm
by polaris
I do have the latest Hornady book, 10th edition, but they do not list the 147 ELD-M. Listed for the 140 ELD-M, COL 3.025". None of the powders you name are listed. IMHO, with the exception of RL-22 they are all on the "fast" side for the 6.5x55 with 140 gr or greater projectiles. Powders listed, all max loads, with the 140 grain bullets as follows...2650fps 48.6 Viht N165, 2600fps 44.1 IMR4831, 41.6 AlR17, 2500fps 41.5IMR4350 (my personal favorite in the 6,5 Swede), 41.0H4350, 43.0 Viht N160, 44.2 AL R19. In my experience with Hodge/IMR powders, Hornady's data runs on the conservative side in the 6,5 Swedish, I reference Hodgedon's pressure tested data. They do list the 142 SMK, which with usual precautions should get you close enough for government work, but you may wish to go powder shopping to optimize your performance. I did flirt with IMR4064 and 140s during the great powder shortage. I got good accuracy, but couldn't quite equal my IMR 4350 loads so I discontinued this line when I found more 4350. I did have outstanding results with IMR 4064 and 123 gr match bullets, until I discovered that the bullet in question could not be counted on to reliably stay together past 100 yards. See my other post on this section regarding that specific issue. Crying shame too, as it was lights out accurate at 100 with minimal recoil and an easily obtainable powder that I shoot in almost everything else I own!

I will add that last summer I witnessed 2 shooters clean the 600 yard vintage sniper target with my load listed above using IMR 4350 and the Hornady 140 BTHP. It's a very economical bullet, and well worth a try in your efforts to stretch your Swede's legs. That being said, I do shoot the ELD-M in 5.56, 75 grain for 600 yard service rifle competition. It is a real advantage in the wind.