http://www.scoutscopes.comhttp://www.mojosights.comhttp://smith-sights.com

It is currently Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:32 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:24 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Tucson, AZ
Age: 23
Good day gents,
Here's a M38 with a big Partisan star on it. Not really much in other markings, except something that looks like a mark from a M91 Carcano I have. Bore looks really nice! Big tang crack.

I keep finding stuff which was recently imported by CAI, etc. like this one, with WWII era graffiti. Some of these were used postwar, but after that must've sat in a bunker somewhere until the late 90's til now. Kind of like Instructie rifles in Romania, probably waiting for a worst case which never happened. But I wonder which country it came out of. I now hesitate to lump everything into Albania. Who knows about some of the Yugoslav areas which didn't have much fighting in the 90's - Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro; or even Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo but they sat in a bunker unfound. I doubt the importer would tell me, sadly.

ImageImageImageImage

_________________
See my Balkans collection on my website http://partisanrifles.weebly.com/, specializing in rifles with soldier graffiti.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:13 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Haystack, Nebr
Age: 58
I'm surprised there have been no comments... fighting in the Balkans is a largely-ignored but important part of history. HairyGreek and I have discussed the matter privately & believe the star shows use by Tito's communist guerillas.

Fighting among the various Balkan factions is a very interesting topic. As mentioned, Albania doesn't figure at the top of the list even though communist fighters prevailed in that country after Italian and German occupation forces were expelled.

Albania was a rich source of weapons in the region. When the Italian king surrendered in 1943, Italians made a deal with partisans surrounding them that they would simply abandon their equipment and go home. In this manner, partisans acquired the equipment of five full divisions... which included a BUNCH of rifles that were quickly disseminated among the guerillas and spread to Greece as well as other hot spots of rebellion. "Thousands" of Italian soldiers joined partisan ranks at this time, swayed by communist doctrine. Even Mussolini became somewhat communist when he formed the RSI (Italian Socialist Republic) not long before his death. Which is getting off topic and can be discussed another day.

In 1944, Germany sent an aid package to their ally, Bulgaria. Included were 30,000 rifles among which were thousands of Carcanos looted from Italian units and armories by German units after the Italian king surrendered in 1943.

Carcanos with partisan graffiti are not hard to find but most collectors know little of them. The stars and other graffiti should be left in place, and the rifles preserved as genuine historical artifacts.

It always does my heart well to see dedicated collectors like HairyGreek preserve history! Ren

_________________
I might be schizophrenic but at least I have each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:49 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:34 pm
Posts: 454
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Age: 49
Carcanos were in yugoslav armament after ww2 but just like a drill purpose rifle. I have never seen carcano in yugoslav warehouse unlike mausers, mosins, lee enfields..
Absolutely very nice rifle with common partisans motiv.

I had lucky visited confiscated weapons warehouse in Podujevo -Kosovo in 2000 during my KFOR mission!
It was like a collectors heaven. Some troops contributes nations had opportunity to take home a war trophy. We did not have such chance unfortunately. There were hundreds old Carcanos among more common AKs and Mausers all types. Probably all Kosovo families keeps one for "bad times".

Carcanos were the most common rifle till the middle of 1944 in Slovenia. After that Partisans received thousands Lee Enfields (more No1 MkIII then No4) and other allied weapons. At the end of war they confiscated thousands of Mausers (Kar 98K) and after the war this rifle- Kar 98K were the first choice after ww2 before M48 Yugoslav rifle (M24 Yugoslav clone).

_________________
Colonel Cathcart: You're a disgrace. I'd like to know how you got to be a Captain, anyway.
Yossarian: You promoted me.
Colonel Cathcart: That has got nothing to do with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:43 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
Age: 37
Not willing to necropost this topic but looking at the star it could be easily an Italian Army Star. You may know that it was used from the beginning of the Italian Unification in 1861. The shape of the incision really reminds me the star as often drawed in the postwar story. The Carcanos were used even in the 50s by the army and then gradually replaced by Garands.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:21 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Haystack, Nebr
Age: 58
I have examples of the Republicana Italiana (sp) star in a circle on 3 rifles in my collection. All have been stamped on metal surfaces.

While your premise can't be positively ruled out, I find it hard to believe regular army soldiers were allowed to carve on their weapons as partisans and guerillas did. Ren

_________________
I might be schizophrenic but at least I have each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:24 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
Age: 37
Many italian partisans were former italian army soldiers. Expecially in the non communist resistance. by the way, great item.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:36 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Tucson, AZ
Age: 23
To be honest I haven't read up on the Italian partisans. It's conceivable they have graffiti out there, though much of what I find, I think, has pretty clear Balkan provenance. The stars are seen in period Yugo Partisan pictures/weapons and on weapons from the other Communist movements in Albania and Greece. I'm not sure how much similar well-used surplus was exported out of Italy.

I recall seeing a Carcano a few years ago when I just started being interested in graffiti. It had big cursive "Cristoforo G" on the buttstock and I thought it was Italian.

This star does remind one of star proofs on normal Carcanos though.

_________________
See my Balkans collection on my website http://partisanrifles.weebly.com/, specializing in rifles with soldier graffiti.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:50 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
Age: 37
not arguing about the origin. i had the opportunity to see some partisan captured pistols and rifles (by italian partisans) and they often had inscriptions and names. Of course even any Balkan hypothesis would make sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:14 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Haystack, Nebr
Age: 58
Just yesterday, HairyGreek and I were discussing a badly abused SKS bearing a star on the right side of the stock. It was believed to have been imported by CAI from Albania recently.

Apparently, the practice of communists carving stars onto their weapons lives on.

(I wanted to buy it, but the price was too high) Ren

_________________
I might be schizophrenic but at least I have each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:42 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Tucson, AZ
Age: 23
RenHoek wrote:
Just yesterday, HairyGreek and I were discussing a badly abused SKS bearing a star on the right side of the stock. It was believed to have been imported by CAI from Albania recently.

Apparently, the practice of communists carving stars onto their weapons lives on.

(I wanted to buy it, but the price was too high) Ren

It's actually up for bid again.
Attachment:
Screenshot from 2016-10-18 20-37-21.png
Screenshot from 2016-10-18 20-37-21.png [ 646.52 KiB | Viewed 1327 times ]

Attachment:
Screenshot from 2016-10-18 20-37-28.png
Screenshot from 2016-10-18 20-37-28.png [ 697.92 KiB | Viewed 1327 times ]

_________________
See my Balkans collection on my website http://partisanrifles.weebly.com/, specializing in rifles with soldier graffiti.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:53 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Haystack, Nebr
Age: 58
Dang! Then there's the uber rare Italian item we discussed just hours ago... And I'm trying to save up for another trip to Belgium...

Time to buy a scratch card AND a lottery ticket! Renaldo (there's a reason I don't have a lot of money) vaan der Hoek

_________________
I might be schizophrenic but at least I have each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:47 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Haystack, Nebr
Age: 58
"There's a reason I don't have a lot of money..."

Temptation overcame me & I bid on the "uber scarce" Italian arm. Which is a Vetterli 1870TS converted to 6,5 caliber. The 1870TS in 10.4x47R is seldom seen, and those converted to 6,5 in the dark days of WW1 are even more unusual. Like this is the only one I've ever seen offered for auction.

These were used mostly by police. It came without a bajonet so I've mocked it up with the one from my 1870 Moschetto which is way too short. Looks like I'll try for a trip to the big militaria expo in Ciney, Belgium next spring - I've never seen one offered for sale in America.

It's shown with my Moschetto for comparison. Ren

Attachment:
ts 001 (800x185).jpg
ts 001 (800x185).jpg [ 114.77 KiB | Viewed 1135 times ]


Attachment:
ts 002 (800x282).jpg
ts 002 (800x282).jpg [ 161.11 KiB | Viewed 1135 times ]


Attachment:
ts 004 (800x283).jpg
ts 004 (800x283).jpg [ 162.4 KiB | Viewed 1135 times ]

_________________
I might be schizophrenic but at least I have each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
FAIR USE NOTICE: This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been pre-authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of political, economic, scientific, social, art, media, and cultural issues. The 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material that may exist on this site is provided for under U.S. Copyright Law. In accordance with U.S. Code Title 17, Section 107, material on this site is distributed without profit to persons interested in such information for research and educational purposes. If you want to use any copyrighted material that may exist on this site for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.