http://www.scoutscopes.comhttp://www.mojosights.comhttp://smith-sights.com

It is currently Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:16 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
Sorry, I've Been away for a while...work, work, snow, work, ice, ice, crape..more snow, ice and work!
So,
I stumbled across this classy old lady today at a local gun store....pics below!
She was just sitting there all lonely like, wanting somebody to talk to.

But, I don't know my older Czech rifles like I should... I need your help.

So what is this? a VZ23 or a VZ24?
And how do you tell the difference? I'm thinking 23...but what do I know?

no Crest and no visible lettering along the left side of the receiver. unless it's below the wood??
The bore is in very good shape! Strong/sharp lands! Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image


Last edited by franc on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:03 am 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: Meno Falls Wi
Age: 64
:think: :think: :think: I would think a sterile scrubbed, E lion 23 date maybe a VZ 23. If it had a later date I would say a VZ 24. Never seen one with that early date. Here is a Persian Vz 24
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=140083&hilit=+czech+mauser

Measure the overall length of the barrel and rifle. What is on the sight leaf number wise?? see this ancient post:
viewtopic.php?p=86127

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=143201

Too bad it was scrubbed :doh: :doh: we see lots of scrubbed Vzs, good as shooters. That dark blackish finish makes me think its one of Aims VZ 24 rifles- scrubbed rebuilds.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=125100&hilit=+czech+mauser

see aim RUSSIAN rebuilds-- the problem the rebuilds had blued bolts and yours is in the white? I do not remember what import mark they had?? It was longer and stamped into the blue not blued over. Does the bolt match?
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3MausVZ24

So it will be interesting to see what the experts think????

_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:11 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
site leaf pic
on Stolen rifle...

Out the door for $200 :o :shock: :D
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:16 am 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: Meno Falls Wi
Age: 64
:o I'd say. The cleaning rod is $30, the stock $80, sight hood $25 and the bolt$ 80. So a good shooter is around $300 at WI gun shows. :shhh: :shhh: :shhh: :shhh:

_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:11 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
I'm confused...
I measured the rifle...Overall she measures 43 1/4" from barrel tip to upper rear point of butt stock..so VZ24?
Not so fast grasshopper!

the barrel length is 21 1/2" , so VZ23 ?

what's going on here?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:29 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Shooter
Mil-Surp Shooter
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 173
Location: The land of Green and Gold
Age: 28
L-block serial number makes this a Vz.23 but the furniture is Vz.24. It's a common thing to see Vz.24 replacement parts on a Vz.23. I believe Century changed their import mark from St. Albans to Georgia in 2002, so it presumably came in before then.

_________________
Forward


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:28 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:27 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 30
Beautiful looking weapons!

_________________
Work is work, unless you make it into something you love.

Full time Fedex Driver, Part time Gun Enthusiast, Part Time Blogger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:17 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: Meno Falls Wi
Age: 64
Most likely a stock switch during the rebuild/scrub and reblue. Notice the metal font and wood font are different so it was restamped during the rebuild to match. Most seem to have a restamped, force matched bolt but always have great headspace on these sterile receiver Vz 24s. Hence, they are a nice shooter or a great dog to put a scope on. Most of the Vz's you see at current shows are scrubbed versions-- everyone is hanging onto the crested ones. Real early import 1990's Vz 24s only have approximately 1/2 of the crest scrubbed and no reblue to the receiver-- its in the white. It is rare to see a crested version at a show and they want $300-400. #-o

_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:24 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
Houston we have a problem...problems
Just as I was starting to do a cleanup on the rifle and I decided to see how she functioned. Loaded a round into the mag.
I tried to load the round, but the round got stuck part way into the chamber. Crape! now what?

Thinking the rifle might be chamber in .308 (they do that sometimes, you know) I tried a .308...Nope. Definitely not .308
Back to the 8mm. I decided to be much more forceful. The round was VERY tight going into the chamber. I was able to go into full battery.
Upon extraction I noticed marks along the brass.

Here is what I found!
Image
Feces! Damne metal beavers!
Image
Now what to do? I called the (LGS) local gun store that I brought it from...luckily they agreed to have their 'smith "look" at it.
So...He's looking at it...

On to 2nd problem...For some reason a VZ23 bayonet that I found laying around won't fit on this rifle...Hmm?
So could I have a VZ24 bayo lug?

What's the difference between a VZ23 bayo lug and a VZ24 bayo lug? Anybody?
Must be that, I truly do have a VZ23 receiver, but with VZ24 parts mixed in.

separate question ~Do ya'll think that I could have a '98 barrel on this thing?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:06 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: Meno Falls Wi
Age: 64
Have the smith Polish the chamber and the edge for the burs, then have them headspace the rifle. Have them be sure the safety flag works on the bolt. In one of the pics, I see it in the up position so it must function? Check for a section of brass inside the chamber. :shifty: When it's fixed you still may have a weak striker spring that can be replaced with a new Wolff spring.
Be sure the bayonet has the hole and its cleaned out on the bayonet handle. The cleaning rod slides into the bayonet hole and it can be problematic if the rod is too long or the bayonet hole is full of dirt. Be sure the edges of the bayonet channel are not dinged or too tight. If the surfaces are damaged the bayonet will not slide onto the bar. If the hole/shaft in the handle is plugged, the bayonet will not slide on. Check the bayonet bar/stud on the rifle; are the edges straight or are they possibly damaged?
Too my knowledge the bayonet stud is the same and most M24, M48 and m24/47 bayonets should fit. Some bayonets, early ones are very long-15 ", later ones are short like the M48 bayonet which is approximately 9.75 " long.
Here is a link to bayonet styles:
http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identi ... via_2.html

Did you notice if the serial number on the receiver and barrel match?
Quote:
Check the bore for strong rifling, make sure it is clean or the seller may be trying to hide something, are there dirt, pits, rust, dark metal, muzzel damage, counter bores, does the rifling apear strong up to the muzzle or is it worn away. Is the barrel plugged??
Check the chamber for burs or dings. The chamber should be mirror bright, smooth, and no uneven pits or scratches. Be sure the barrel is clean, if not, it's a crap shoot as to what you will get condition wise and the seller is hiding something. A clean good bore will always get top buck. If dirty, assume it's junk or poor condition. At a honest pawn shop they generally let you run a patch down the bore just too get a sale. Bring a small cleaning rod, bore light and magnifier glass. I dislike counter bores-avoid them. LOOK for matching parts, make sure the barrel is correct for the make and year.

source: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=145484&hilit=buying+my+first+rifle

_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:03 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Shooter
Mil-Surp Shooter
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 173
Location: The land of Green and Gold
Age: 28
franc wrote:
On to 2nd problem...For some reason a VZ23 bayonet that I found laying around won't fit on this rifle...Hmm?
So could I have a VZ24 bayo lug?

What's the difference between a VZ23 bayo lug and a VZ24 bayo lug? Anybody?
Must be that, I truly do have a VZ23 receiver, but with VZ24 parts mixed in.

separate question ~Do ya'll think that I could have a '98 barrel on this thing?


It's almost certainly a Vz.24 bayonet lug, being that it's on a Vz.24 stock. There shouldn't be any problem with mounting a Vz.23 bayonet on it though; it's the same lug as the Gew.98/Kar.98k uses all through the Vz.98/22, Vz.23, and Vz.24. It's possible that the cleaning rod is too long for the bayonet you're trying to mount, or perhaps bent too much to fit all the way in the bayonet handle. Can you post pictures of the bayonet? Does it mount on other rifles?

_________________
Forward


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: VZ23 (?) bayo; pic heavy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:29 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
I tested it (23 bayo) on a VZ33..no luck, it almost instantly got stuck in the same position as on the VZ23.
The VZ33 bayo worked just fine on the VZ33...just as a control (obviously)
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Here is the Vz23 bayo getting stuck in the same place on a VZ33 as it did on the "23"....What gives?
Image
Very frustrating...even with cleaning rod off of the "33" the 23's bayo got stuck.
I can't see any damage on the bayo attachment point that would interfere.
Any special dimensions that I should be checking for on the attachment channel?
VZ33 (control) fitting just fine with the VZ33 bayo! Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:03 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: Meno Falls Wi
Age: 64
:roll: Man those slide bars on that bayonet end photo are battered to he$$. You will have to get a small gunsmith file and dress the rails for that beat example to slide onto the rifle.
Attachment:
IMG_0844.JPG
IMG_0844.JPG [ 847.16 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]


look at the straight edges in the photo examples of different bayonets. there are 2 spots of concern that need some attention. Do not modify the rifle . You adjust the bayonet. First, you may need to use a small needle file to dress the up/down slide-on gap between the bottom and top rail on each side of the bayonet. It may be too narrow. It is easier to file the top bar if you need to remove lots of material to smooth down the damage. Second, on some bayonets they are not wide enough at the top slot ( slide-on vertical notch), then you need to file adjust the side to side vertical gap on the bayonet. I put up a photo with arrows that should show from a photo bucket when it takes. the edit does not appear for a day or so :snooty: :think: :think: :doh: check back and arrows may appear on edited photo :shifty: so square up the rails and keep fitting and filing till it fits. Then check the cleaning rod hole.

Image


Attachments:
IMG_0843.JPG
IMG_0843.JPG [ 779.45 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]
IMG_0845.JPG
IMG_0845.JPG [ 838.31 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]

_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Progress!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:01 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:57 am
Posts: 51
Location: oregon
Age: 52
With a BIG thank you to 72 USMC and the rest of you...

Made some progress today!
I was able to find my largest rubber mallet, and with a number of huge hits I was able to get the VZ23 bayo onto the VZ33 lug!
Thank you all so much! Getting the bayo off is going to be a female dog! I figured the metal on the bayo will form fit.
Image
I am a bad person!
Actually, I was finally able to track down a set of Jeweler style mini files at an Ace hardware store.
I had to visit 3 stores to find what I needed. With some determination, patience and the pointers from 72 USMC's pics, progress was made!
After well over an hour of slowly filing the various edges/surfaces and cleaning and test fitting every so often, I was able to get the 23 bayonet onto the 33 lug.
With a bit more filing and cleaning and some lubrication the 23 bayo was popping on and off as easily as eating pie!
Thank you all again! That reminds me I have some left over Cherry pie in the frig!

side note: All of this cleaning and filing caused a sudden urge to straighten up my toys.
I found this in the safe. For the life of me I can't remember which rifle this goes to / or what this is (it's a bayo...duh)
A little help?
AK?(it doesn't fit my two OPAPs; 1 regular, 1 under folder); Argentine mauser? (don't think so, too modern).
I know it is not for anything Swedish. stumped...
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:26 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:21 am
Posts: 319
Location: Panama City, Florida
Age: 49
Yugoslavia Type 3 AK bayonet.

_________________
Mike
TSgt USAF Retired
Jan 86 - Sept 08
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life Is Our Business"
(122X0, 1T1X1, 1P0X1)
NRA Life Member


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
FAIR USE NOTICE: This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been pre-authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of political, economic, scientific, social, art, media, and cultural issues. The 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material that may exist on this site is provided for under U.S. Copyright Law. In accordance with U.S. Code Title 17, Section 107, material on this site is distributed without profit to persons interested in such information for research and educational purposes. If you want to use any copyrighted material that may exist on this site for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.