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.410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

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72 usmc
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.410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#1 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:37 am

What follows is a much edited repost of my 1916 Enfield .410 shotgun/rifle that was converted by India in 1930. It uses original brass cartridges-- not modern plastic .410 shot shells. I hope to attach a goggle link to the old original payback link and all the deleted comments when I get access to a new computer. Many thanks to Zeliard for telling me how to move photos around from the wayback links. If you see a small outlined box where the photos are, just click on the box and all the photos appear. These have all been attached /fixed by the forum attachment method. Pics seem to turn to boxes after no views, maybe as a space saving device??? But the pics are all present, you just got to wake them up.


Back in 19 Sept 2015;
Yes, at the Fond du Lac, WI, large Gun Show, I found a BSA 1916 SMLE Mk III* converted in 1930 to an India, single shot, musket/shotgun. (Lots of goodies, best surplus show in 6 years- it seems everyone was dumping surplus rifles and pistols) I ran out of money and still could have got more deals, but if retired and no pension :cry: :cry:

My SMLE .410 was still covered in heavy cosomoline from 1988 when the guy picked it up from Springfield Sporters for $69. Note: the Springfield import mark is on the top of the barrel behind the sight under the small upper handguard. I had recently talked to Felixmophandle about these because he needed a brass cartridge case for one of these in his collection and he said he had some examples of these converted .410 Enfields. After some research, I see most go for between $300-400. Actually there were 2 at other tables : 1 at $375 an it was an Indian made, GRI stamped, SMLE and a second similar one one at $325. This second one was clean and had a Century import mark. The guy was selling POF ammo at a buck a round. :hand: So when I got my British made example for $150 it was a no brainer, just that it was a goo stick, cosmosaurs that was unearthed out of storage after sitting 27 years. It took 6 hours to clean the dog up.

It is all British made and not the Ishapore, Indian made, SMLE :thumb: :arrow: which is a plus in my book. Stamped ".410 RFI 1930" on the left side strap. :arrow: edit see Alan's clarification to this poor sentence:
The RFI marking is "Rifle Factory Ishapore" your 410 is not made in Britain - it IS Indian production.
What I should have said is : The original rifle was made in England, but the conversion to this 1916 rifle was done in Ishapore 1930, hence the .410 conversion is Indian made and Stamped ".410 RFI 1930". I have seen .410 rifles converted from rifles with British markings on the strap and all Ishapore made rifles with GRI on the strap.



This is an early example of an import .410 that chambers the Indian POF brass case, .410 ball musket ammo. American 2.5 inch .410 shells do not fit this rifle, but the brass POF musket ball ammo chambers just fine. This is not a later Century bored-out version made /converted by Century in order to fire the American, regular .410 cartridges. I like that it is an original Indian converted, brass-case cartridge, smooth bore musket version. It will not chamber a modern .410 paper or plastic shotshell. I also like that it is a British made rifle lacking the Ishy screw and India GRI stamp. The adjustable sight has been riveted/locked in a locked position, the barrel is bore-out to a smooth bore rifle- and all the stinking cosmo kept it mirror bright, the metal floor plate is riveted in and a wood plug blocks the magazine space, it is missing a stacking swivel and the long screw on the nose piece. The bolt matches the nose piece, but not the strap serial number. I took a bunch of photos of the before condition, its marks, and some after photos of the rifle. Pic heavy of the details.

Now about the $1 a round ammo which is a joke. Midway, Dans Ammo, and Lucky Gunner all have original India, POF, brass case musket ball ammo in the green wood boxes for $49 and shipping for 2 to WI from Tn at Lucky Gunner- was only $16. $28 at Dans, and Midway is always $$$$ high on shipping. So ammo is 28 cents a round and tons of it is around. But bear in mind, it fits a non Century converted rifle. The chamber in a Century conversion ( they are not marked as to this conversion) is larger in diameter and longer on those monkey conversions. :idea: :roll: A normal, modern, plastic .410 shot shell will not even enter the chamber, let alone slide in for a proper length fit on my original chamber .410. The brass musket cartridge just slides in perfect. Also some have firing pin problems because the rim/headspace is different between a Enfield cartridge and American shot shell- like most of Century's conversions it's not just right.
Dans photos: correct ammo,
http://www.dansammo.com/images/inv/AS41001.htm

So get your ammo from the nearest location and save on shipping- the ammo is all the same price. Unless you pay a buck a round at a gun show :snooty: :lol: :lol:
Now the photos of my $150 treasure:
the cleaned barrel
IMG_9090_zps26dainzw.jpg
the strap markings
IMG_9088_zpsodfkrcr8.jpg
the rivets on the sight locking it into position
IMG_9089_zpsa5c5t7hf.jpg
the wood plug
IMG_9067_zps2b0nv1i0.jpg
the strap BSA markings and date
IMG_9073_zpsco27ruge-1.jpg


_________________
Don't pick a fight with an old Marine. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you.


Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:25 am, edited 6 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:41 am

The rifle and stock
IMG_9078_zpszp1unw4n.jpg
GOO-- :dance: :shifty: you got to love the smell of cosmoline in the morning
IMG_9085_zpsph4j9spn.jpg
IMG_9077_zpsqgtflhbt.jpg
IMG_9068_zpscb9u50z7.jpg
IMG_9064_zpsaw3jsjsi.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#3 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:44 am

some of the British marks cleaned off a wee bit
IMG_9071_zps98e6hdnn.jpg
IMG_9072_zpsfcaazxou.jpg
IMG_9075_zpsqww1dnxc.jpg
IMG_9076_zpst4shhdwv.jpg
IMG_9083_zpsww4rtc9g.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#4 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:50 am

I have no idea what size a British .410 or Indian .410 shotshell looks like and if they fit; I do know an American shotshell will not fit and this ammo marked " POF" is correct for firing in this rifle. It has a musket ball and not lead shot pellets???? Photos of the cartridge headstamp and paper wraps.
IMG_9094_zpsooqq5nvo.jpg
IMG_9092_zpscuup2ynz.jpg
IMG_9091_zpszwpqf7wm.jpg
IMG_9093_zpss9ipz4iw.jpg

DID THEY ALSO HAVE BRASS CASE SHOT SHELLS??? Anyone got some photos. My ammo is also dated 1960 and maybe this is the last run of this stuff :think: :think: :think:

More info and photos.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201890
https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-410-musket

Here are reference photos from libertytreecollectors of the 1949 GRI Ishapore made .410 conversion

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... ategory=82
An Ishapore .410 converted to fire modern shot shells. see link firing the Converted for modern .410 video
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/ishapor ... ion-video/
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#5 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:56 am

Ordered ammo on Sunday and it arrived this morning Wednesday. Super fast well packaged and shipped in the original unopened wood box. :clap: :greetings-clappingorange: :greetings-clappingyellow: :greetings-clapyellow:

Here it is, Yep, if you are close to TN then Lucky Gunner is the place to buy from. They ship you the wood box with the tin and only $16 shipping to WI in 3 days.
IMG_9095_zpsgtja5msv.jpg
IMG_9096_zpsctepxgmw.jpg
IMG_9097_zpslkbkfohw.jpg
IMG_9098_zpsjugant3g.jpg
IMG_9099_zps1ds85omg.jpg



These are nice condition small boxes worth $20 and measure 8.5 inches x 6.75 inches and are 5.25 inches high. A nice display item with lots of neat markings and a dog to open. No mold smell, but lots of original dust :shhh: It comes out to about $6.80 per box shipping on 3, $8.00 on 2. And super fast, well packaged, LG is a good place to get ammo in my book.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#6 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:58 am

More of the box pictures from the original post from 19 Sept 2015.
IMG_9100_zpsw9c8leut.jpg
IMG_9101_zpsjekjprpf.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#7 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:00 am

Rapidropb states :

Cases are very easy to make for the .410 musket. You can fire form .303 Britt or .30-40 Krag. This gives you re-loadable shells and a chance to play with diff loads. The barrels are very straight and will shoot .41 pistol bullets or stacked .40 cal balls in a power-piston or shot, etc. They shoot almost to the point-of-aim at 50 yards. Fun to shoot clay-pidgins as well.
Case life is very good as I have not had to trash one as yet.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#8 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:01 am

Quote:
Cases are very easy to make for the .410 musket. You can fire form .303 Britt or .30-40 Krag. This gives you re-loadable shells and a chance to play with diff loads. The barrels are very straight and will shoot .41 pistol bullets or stacked .40 cal balls in a power-piston or shot,


Rapidrob I never reloaded a shot shell. Do you have a tutorial on how to make a .410 brass Enfield shot shell with bird shot. Any link? How about a detailed method for a sticky for a "boot" to these shot shells. How long, what brass, what primer, what powder, and how much, how much lead bird shot, how do you pack it in and cap the end? How do you form the brass in a regular .303 die set? Are you up for making a detailed sticky with photos & instructions :think: :think: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
I do reload .303 but have never made shot shells.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#9 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:03 am

Rapid rob states:
Any .410 load can be used. You use a large rifle primer in your .303 or .30-40 Krag fire-formed and blown out case. The case is trimmed at the mouth to make sure it is concentric. A plastic .410 wad is used and does a good job of sealing the brass case when the powder ignites.
As for sealing the case to keep the shot or bullets in place,you can use wax or tape,even RTV. I use an over-the-shot card wad made from milk carton. I place a roll crimp onto the mouth of the case using a die I made from a .45-70 die.
Your brass is either left as it is fireformed as to length, or trimmed back if you have a short chamber. None of my "shotguns" have a three inch chamber and I do not have to trim back the brass to fit.
The modified Enfields have no choke. So keeping that in mind you want to keep a target about 25 yards at the max. Pellet count is low in the .410 so patterns are very large beyond that range.
You can also use .41 pistol bullets. Either single or stacked. .41 Magnum loads work well. The bullet will tumble of course. They do seem to fly straight for 25-30 yards. Loads are worked up by total bullet weight.
Sabot loads can be made as well to launch a dart, slug or other projectiles you can think up.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#10 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:08 am

#-o I ordered my ammo when they had 135 boxes on 11 May and on 11 June they got 42 boxes left :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

There must be a bunch of us with the original chamber .410 Springfield Sporter's SMLE Musket shotguns? :dance:
The few of these Enfield, SMLE rifles I see at gun shows are almost always the Century Arms import marked, and modified/rechambered by Century for modern 3 inch .410 shotshells. There are no markings to let one know if it's one of the messed with conversions- just a Cenntury import mark. Springfields import mark is not visible and is under the wood.

Libertytree got in the act: but it is $15 for 1 pack :snooty:

The last gun show had it at a buck a round. :hand:
I also see SOG is in the act & also sold this ammo . It went fast.

Maybe I get 2 more boxes, :think: :think: It is a nice rifle to shoot out to 75 yards. No splits in the brass cases after shooting. It fires and straightens out the case like there never was a crimp around the lead ball. All fires, no hang fires, and I am going to reload some with bird shot.
Anyone have a British made conversion that is still all matching? Post some photos.


New boxes with slightly different markings:
IMG_9371_zpsxynullwo.jpg
IMG_9370_zpsuthhlimb.jpg
IMG_9368_zpsyvaivgap.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#11 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:10 am

More photos of the second order with different markings on the boxes . Cont. from above photos:
IMG_9367_zpsgnuqjx2p.jpg
IMG_9366_zpsg7kju301.jpg
IMG_9364_zps9xxzaluc.jpg
IMG_9369_zpstx426gro.jpg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#12 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:14 am

From the old forum link, a repost of Rapidrob's reloading .410 enfield shot shells:
If you are into reloading .410 here is the details in this new link.
a repost of this with intact pictures see new link
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=239

thank you Rapidrob :thumb: =D> =D>
Quote:
While there are many crates of the Indian .410 loads for their converted rifle to a .410 musket,you can load for the musket. It's easy cheap after you get the brass,fun and the results on target are better than you'd expect.
Several years back when components were much cheaper than today,I used .41 Magnum bullets.
Today that is not cost effective.
We will be loading "00-Buckshot.
What you will need is:
.30-40 Krag or .303 Britt brass. Either will work. The Krag brass will give you a longer case,not a big deal.
00-Buckshot. You can find a Hornandy box of two pounds or more for under 20 bucks. (.410 ammo is expensive,you will get many loads out of this box)
Unique Smokeless powder. This one pound will load a lot of .410 ammo.
Large rifle primers,any brand
A decapping tool such as the Lee universal decapping die.
Foam ear-plugs. Most ranges sell these and the trash cans are filled full of the used plugs. Wash in an old sock or your wife's old panty-hose foot. You can buy new,but free is free if your not grossed out with used ear-plugs.
The ear plugs will become the "over-the-shot" wad and fire-forming wad.
.410 "skeet" plastic shot wads 2 1/2". Any GOOD gun shop or box store will sell them .They come in bags of 250,500 and 1,000
Here is the good news. You do not need a die set to load these shells. Once formed they will fit until they can no longer be shot due to case splits. 15-20 loads down the road.
A used .357 Magnum,non-carbide sizing die is very handy but not 100% necessary.
Cream-of-wheat dry cereal.
A razor knife.
A drift punch or dowel that will easily fit inside of a .41 caliber case by a few hundreds of an inch.
Lee powder scoop or powder measure that will give you 9 grains of Unique.
OK,lets get started.
First you will need to fire form the brass you have into a straight walled .410 shotgun "Shell"
Easy to do,follow my directions and you cannot screw it up.
De-prime the fired case and prime the case. New brass is fine as well,once fired is cheaper.Watch out for bad .303 Brass fired in a long chambered Enfield. Articles here on SRF on what they look like.
Pour in 9 grains of Unique. I've worked out the safe pressures,00 buck weight,,MV and the best accuracy.
Using the same Lee powder scoop or your wife's measuring spoons, fill the rest of the case with Cream-of-Wheat up to the bottom of the neck of the case.
Take one full ear-plug,roll it up and stuff it on top the cream-of-wheat. Use the punch and make sure the plug is INSIDE of the case neck/mouth.
You have now made a blank that will "iron" out the case neck,shoulder and fire-form a new cartridge. A brass .410 shell.
The blank is not a toy. At close range it will tear flesh from bone. At 25 feet it will blind. The blank is loud and throws a pretty good fire ball.
Make as many as you'd like. If a case splits,it will not hurt the musket,just your cost of a case. The cream-of-wheat will not hurt the bore.
Reprime the newly made brass .410 shell.
Dump in the same 9 grains of Unique.
Seat the .410 wad made for the 2 1/2" Skeet load,use the punch or dowel. Make sure it is on top of the powder charge with NO air gap. You will feel it stop on top of the charge.
Now seat four 00-buck,one on top of another. You do not need a filler like GREX but you can use it if you want to. I don't.
Now take one ear plug and cut it lengthwise into THREE pieces of equal length.
Roll up one piece of ear-plug and stuff it into the mouth of the loaded case.
(You can use a paper wad,milk carton wad,or even a real .410 over the shot wad if you'd like.) I like the foam plugs,free,easy to work with,fast to insert.
Let the plug expand,keep it level over the buckshot.
You can stop here if you want,or......
run the case just into the mouth of the .357 Magnum sizing die. It will "crimp" the plug/wad into place. You only need a 1/16" of an inch,no more. Going further into the die will crush your new casing.
Your newly loaded 00-Buck round is accurate out to 25 yards. 50 yards max range on a man silhouette target.
It would make a good close range varmint round.
And you have all the materials to reload the rounds many more times.
This is my second post on the do-it-yourself .410 loads for the Enfield Musket. More to come.
Other than case length, there is no big deal on using either caliber original case.
These muskets are very strong. You can increase the powder charge if you want. I found it opens up the shot group though.
The load I posted will move the buckshot right around 1,000 fps.




Here is how to make a british .303 shell fit a normal .410. a long dead link but the quote remains.
www.surplusfirearm.com/2011

From above source with photos. Not sure if this will disappear so it's also posted below lacking the photos.
Quote:
.303 British to .410 Shotshell Conversion
Posted on November 16, 2011 by admin

So, I’m a little pumped about being able to reload my own .410 shot-shells without a shot-shell reloading press so I head out to the not-so-local skeet range to do some hull scavenging. I get there a day after a corporate shoot expecting to find at least a small assortment of .410 hulls – and not a single one was to be found anywhere. Disappointed in my efforts to locate some .410 hulls I resorted to the internet and searched for once-fired .410 hulls. Interestingly, during my search I found some periodic comments and rough tutorials on the internet on how to convert .303 British brass to .410 shot-shell hulls. Yes, I know – you can purchase brass hulls from MagTech – but if I can make my own .410 hulls out of some once-fired .303 British brass, now that really sparks my interest. You see – anytime I can make something myself cheaper than buying it at retail prices I get interested, even if it takes some time and experimentation. I guess its the “self-sufficiency” in me. So, here we go – .303 British Brass converted to .410 shot shells.

I had a bag full of once-fired .303 British brass given to me so I elected those cases to be the victim of experimentation over some of my brand new, unfired supply of .303 brass. Some of the cases had bulges just above the rim from an obvious head-space problem caused by it’s former firearm. After, checking the cases for preliminary case-head separation, discarding the obvious problematic cases, it was time to start depriming the salvageable cases and began the conversion by tumbling the brass to clean them up.

The first hurdle to overcome on the conversion is to resolve an obvious problem with head-space and the .303 British case incapable of chambering in the .410 shotgun. The problem being the .410 shot-shell has a rim thickness of .063″ with a 55 degree tapered rim and the .303 British having a .060″ untapered rim. Despite the fact that the .303 British rim is thinner than the .410’s rim, the .303 British simply cannot fit in a .410 chamber without the taper. One way to resolve the problem is to mill a taper on the underside of the.303 British rim to make it similar to the taper of a .410 shot-shell. Problem is, I don’t have a milling machine – but why not just file a few thousands off the case head of the .303 British so it seats flush with the .410 breech. Let’s do it.

I started by securing each case, one at a time, in a padded vice and began filing evenly across the case head. Initially, I was unsure as to how exactly much of the case head needed to be thinned so I started by counting the passes with the file and counted 30, 40, then 50 passes and tested the brass for a fit in the chamber until the action closed on my single shot shotgun. After an average of 50 passes with the file, and entirely removing the lettering on the case head, it was found that a rim thickness of ~.055″ would fit flush and allow the shotgun to lock up. To the right is a comparison of a filed case and an unfiled case. Make sure that when you file the case you keep the file level, squared with the case head so as not to create an uneven surface on the face of the rim.

Next, I test fitted the .303 British case against the .410 breech to ensure a flush chambering of the brass was possible. Then, I simply closed the action of the single-shot .410 shotgun with the case in the chamber and it fit perfectly. Since I’m using a single-shot .410 it was rather simple to do; however a pump or semi-auto shotgun may involve more precise fitting and workmanship. So basically, instead of removing metal from the underside of the .303 British rim to thin (or taper) the case, we simply just removed metal from the top of the rim (see below).

One concern I read regarding the thinning of the case head by using a file was that, thinning the case head will make the primer seat above the head of the case. Well, that simply isn’t true. As you can see from the photo that removing only a few thousands of an inch that the primer stills seats well below the face of the case head where it belongs.

Now we begin to fire-form the case to make the tapered .303 British case a straight walled .410 shot-shell brass hull. Since we have to fire-form the majority of the case to get it to become a straight-walled shot-shell, we’ll do this process in no less than two separate fire-forming procedures. The first being to blow-out the neck and shoulder and the second to make the rest of the case straight. We start by annealing the cases with a propane torch, a cold pan of water and a spark-plug socket chucked into a cordless drill. Spin the case using the drill to help in uniform annealing. As it spins you can see the color change as the metal heats up and works down the body of the case – do not, nor is it necessary, for the case to turn cherry red while annealing. Once the case turns a bluish color drop the annealed case into the water. Since we’re moving a lot brass during this fire-forming I am annealing more than just the case neck and shoulder; in fact about 2/3 of the case is annealed; being certain not to over heat the lower 1/3 – that portion should not even begin to change color – and it helps to be protected by the socket and prevent over heating. After the cases are dropped in the water they become pretty soft and malleable. Place the cases aside to dry thoroughly before priming.

Once the cases have dried they were primed with large pistol primers. Since shotgun shells have very low pressure levels, lower than pistol cartridges, it makes sense to use pistol primers versus rifle primers. I used Wolf large pistol primers as they are very reasonably priced compared to their U.S.counterparts and serve this purpose very well.

For the first fire-form, I load the .303 brass with 12 grains of Red Dot and pack it full of Cream of Wheat. Fill the case up to about 1/4″ from the top of the case – then pack the Cream of Wheat. Then cover the last 1/4″ of space with wax or other substance to keep the Cream of Wheat from falling out. Load and shoot.







As you can see from the first fire-form effort the upper half of the case expands to fit the .410 chamber and the shoulder is completely blown out to form a nice straight case neck. Now that the neck and shoulder is expanded to a rough .410 shot-shell we can start loading for a second fire-form to help expand the lower section of the case.

After seating new primers in the cases for the second fire-form I loaded 12 grains of Alliant 2400 powder then inserted a .410 factory wad (shown are Claybuster CB5050-410HS wads). When inserting the wad you may find that the wad does not fit entirely inside the case because the lower, unexpanded section, prevents the wad from fitting all the way in. No problem, just trim the fins on the wad and insert it into the case. Another alternative to plastic wads is to use a .410 over-shot card and a fiber cushion wad cut to the necessary diameter. I actually seen one individual stuff it with T-shirt material and shoot.





Next, I filled the case with approximately 1/2 ounce of lead shot. Then, using either a .45 diameter punch or a .45 ACP empty case with the edge sharpened I cut an over-shot card to place over the shot. I then pressed the card in place with a dowel and then covered the over-shot card with Elmer’s glue to hold the card in place. After the glue dried I loaded them up and fired away.

You can create a niceroll crimp on the shell using a .308 Winchester bullet seating die as an alternative to gluing the card in place. I chose not to do this since I don’t want to work the brass anymore than necessary – but it is an option.

To the right we see the results of the second fire-form. Not too bad if I say so myself. Might need one more 1/2 ounce load to get the final needed expansion at the base but most certainly loadable.

I need to note that the brass case is thinner walled than the plastic cases. That said, you may need to modify your choice of wad column diameter. What I’ve done is to cut a 1/8″ over-powder card the diameter of .460″ to place over the powder charge to ensure a seal, then place a plastic Claybuster wad on top of that, fill with 1/2 ounce shot, then cut an over-shot card out of cereal boxes at .460″ and seal it with Elmer’s Glue. The punch I use is the same one used to cut wads for my .44 black powder pistol. Punches are available at Harbor Freight for about $8. And finally, if you find your brass sticking in your chamber and need to resize the cases you can place the shell in a .303 British shell-holder and run it up into a .45 ACP sizing die and size about 5/8 of the case for a smooth chambering.

Wrapping up I wanted to comment that I read in an older reloading manual that when it comes to brass shot-shell cases that, “Not going on much here. If you have any of these, put them up on a mantle and think up a good “Grandpa told me” story to tell people when they ask, “What’s that?”. I got a better idea – why not show those people how to make, load and shoot these old brass cases and carry on the legacy of our Great Grandparents…I bet you’ll have more fun actually doing it than talking about it.

Safe Shooting!
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#13 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:43 am

I hope someone finds this useful because it takes a long time to restore a popular old post. If some members have some super nice posts on the lost forum, please attempt to restore them.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

Alan De Enfield
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#14 Post by Alan De Enfield » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:04 am

Thanks for restoring the old posts - the 410 is an interesting part of the Enfield history.

It maybe being pedantic but you say :

It is all British made and not the Ishapore, Indian made, SMLE :thumb: :arrow: which is a plus in my book. Stamped ".410 RFI 1930" on the left side strap, this is an early example of an import .410 that chambers the Indian POF brass case

The RFI marking is "Rifle Factory Ishapore" your 410 is not made in Britain - it IS Indian production.
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

72 usmc
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Re: .410 Enfield SMLE shot gun

#15 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:51 am

Thanks for the correction & clarification. I used an unclear, poor way of saying that the original rifle was made in England, but the conversion to this 1916 rifle was done in Ishapore 1930, hence the .410 conversion is Indian made and Stamped ".410 RFI 1930". I have seen .410 rifles converted from rifles with British markings on the strap and all Ishapore made rifles with GRI markings. I made an edit and added your fine clarification . Many thanks. Any other information/history you can add is appreciated. Do you have an example you could add from your collection?
I do not have an example of the all Ishapore made GRI .303 rifle that was converted to the .410. Its strap markings look like this
source of photo is on line from an old sale on armslist:
1759856_02_rare_enfield_no_1_mk_iii_ishap_640.jpg
Can anyone post an example of one of these and show all its markings? That would be a great addition.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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