Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

SMLE Front Sight Question

Message
Author
Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

SMLE Front Sight Question

#1 Post by Turtle Farm » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:00 pm

Hi,

I have a No 4 Mk 2 SMLE with a front sight that is off centered. It was like this when I bought it and I centered it and wen I shot it I ended up basically moving the front sight back to where it was as in the photo. Has anyone else ever had this with their SMLE and is there a way to fix it? I was not sure if the front sight was improperly installed or something is up with the barrel. Just does not seem normal to me! This is one of those unissued Fazakerlys made in 1955.

60BA1EF9-CCE7-4E7E-92B5-2E491D0479A6.jpeg

72 usmc
Gun Nut
Gun Nut
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:01 pm

Lets see a picture of the rear sight? Could it be bent?
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

Alan De Enfield
Member
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:28 am
Age: 60
Location: Wales
Wales

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#3 Post by Alan De Enfield » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:26 am

Assuming that everything on your rifle is 'straight and in line' then the rifle itself is at fault, and would have been ear-marked for scrapping by an Armourer.
It may be the case that whilst it is 'not right' you may have to live with it.

Extract from Peter Laidler's notes on the No4 front sights :

"........Our acceptable zeroing standards state after zeroing, the blade of the foresight will overhang or be level with the edge of the foresight block. If the edge is inboard of the edge of the block, then it indicates that something is wrong with the rifle........"
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Canada

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#4 Post by Tommy Atkins » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:38 am

Check the fitting of the barrel channel. The barrel should be bottom center of the channel at the muzzle end of the wood with about 4~7Lb of UP pressure needed to pull it away from the bottom center.

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#5 Post by Turtle Farm » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:15 pm

Here is a pic of the rear sight as requested, not sure if it helps or not. It does not appear to be bent.

8F78C7A9-1884-473C-BD6D-92E423312E0E.jpeg

If there is a problem with this rifle, would it have some kind of marking indicating it was to be scrapped? The rifle looks to have never been used, possibly it was a mummy wrap before I got it.

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#6 Post by Turtle Farm » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:34 pm

Also, I am not sure what is meant by “inboard of the edge block” in Alan’s post. Not sure if my sight would be considered that when it looks like in that posting the sight can overhang the sight block some.

Alan De Enfield
Member
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:28 am
Age: 60
Location: Wales
Wales

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#7 Post by Alan De Enfield » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:24 am

Turtle Farm wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:34 pm
Also, I am not sure what is meant by “inboard of the edge block” in Alan’s post. Not sure if my sight would be considered that when it looks like in that posting the sight can overhang the sight block some.
Sorry - maybe I made it a bit confusing, hopefully this will help :

Looking at the above muzzle photo, the 'right hand side' edge of the blade is 'inboard' of the 'band-block-base'.
As the blade is wider than the base it must overhand on both sides, or, one side or the other, but it is rejected if one side overhangs so much that the other side is not (at the worst case) in line with the base with the base, and preferably overhangs a little both sides.
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#8 Post by Turtle Farm » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:14 am

Based on this explanation, it looks like my rifle is a reject? Such a shame, the finish on the entire rifle looks like it was made yesterday and it was never in the field and knocked around. I guess there is nothing I can do, but to leave it as is and see what I can do shooting it at the range, nothing else to check?

Thank you for the information.

Alan De Enfield
Member
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:28 am
Age: 60
Location: Wales
Wales

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#9 Post by Alan De Enfield » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:33 am

Turtle Farm wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:14 am
Based on this explanation, it looks like my rifle is a reject? Such a shame, the finish on the entire rifle looks like it was made yesterday and it was never in the field and knocked around. I guess there is nothing I can do, but to leave it as is and see what I can do shooting it at the range, nothing else to check?

Thank you for the information.
Giving it a little more thought as to any other possibilities -

You could check to make sure the barrel is installed correctly - make sure the Knocks form is horizontal and the sight base is 'vertical' and in line with the rear sight.
It is possible that it has been rebarreled and has some under/over turn.

Having an under/overturned barrel will result in offset front sight blade.

Here is an extract from one of Peter laidler's presentations - (it tells you how to check)

When you have breeched up your barrel so that it LOOKS pretty-well square, I want you to select a solid (as in not the fabricated type) foresight protector with straight and undamaged sides and secure it to the foresight block band When the screw it tightened up, this foresight protector should grip the block band each side. In other words, even when the screw is loosened a tad, you should not be able to rotate the protector….., not even a little bit. It must slide and sit on the foresight block band tightly.

Now you probably won’t have a hundred or so foresight protectors to try before you get one that’s perfect. You won’t need that many, and most probably, the first or second you try will do. If you can’t find one, then just make sure that before you tighten yours up, then it is sat EXACTLY equidistant/centrally astride the block band. Do you understand this. It is important.

As a matter of interest, we had an exact protector that was painted BFA yellow (that’s Blank Firing Adaptor paint colour …..) that stayed with the breeching up kit together with an extended screw with an allen-key end for ease of use but I digress…...

Now, you insert a 4” long or so .144” diameter or 9 SWG (Standard Wire Gauge) ground steel bar, through the backsight axis pin hole and rest this across two matched vee blocks that are sat on a surface plate at a height that allows the rifle to lay parallel to the surface plate or something else that is 36” or so long and absolutely FLAT. We had a sheet of plate glass that did the job as well as anything. Now, allow the foresight protectors to touch the glass. Now, gently rock the barrel and the body between the axis pin and the protectors. It SHOULD sit absolutely square, supported between the axis of the backsight axis pin and the square of the foresight protectors.

If it’s not EXACTLY square and rock free, then just tighten or undo the barrel a further gnats knacker until it is ‘no-rock’ perfect. And that is it! If we were 2nd Class Craftsmen, we’d ask a 1st class Armourer to sign off the work but to be honest, after a couple of times, it was like riding a bike

Now you have a backsight and a foresight that are both exactly upright and square to each other, regardless of what the parallel gauge or alignment lines say……….., and that’s really all that’s needed. Oh yes, and don’t talk to me about alignment bars/lines either. If you have ever breeched up Thompson guns or SA80 rifles, then you soon learn to ignore them and do it properly. If you have any fears that the extractor slot might not align with the extractor then forget it because there is ample width to cater for it.
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

dallased
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:47 pm
Age: 69
Location: Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#10 Post by dallased » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:52 am

Is it just me or does the muzzle look off center to the mount and the bracket sure looks off center on the bottom of the barrel. If the barrel is off center that might explain why the front sight is so far to the left to bring the point of impact in that direction.

Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Canada

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#11 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:56 am

dallased wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:52 am
Is it just me or does the muzzle look off center to the mount and the bracket sure looks off center on the bottom of the barrel. If the barrel is off center that might explain why the front sight is so far to the left to bring the point of impact in that direction.
I think that's just camera angle it seems to be photographed from slightly to the left as viewed from the single bayonet lug visible.

I'd still check barrel bedding as that will throw rounds off considerably.

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#12 Post by Turtle Farm » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:58 am

I took the rifle apart today and here are a couple photos. I am not sure what to check as far as bedding and “knocks” go. I am surprised there isn’t a witness mark/line of some kind to see the barrel is aligned with the receiver. I am familiar with Mausers and Mosins, but SMLEs I know very little unfortunately. Not sure if these photos help any.

64CE5882-A708-4F8D-82F6-1D09149C250C.jpeg
The attachment 64CE5882-A708-4F8D-82F6-1D09149C250C.jpeg is no longer available

I appreciate all the input!

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#13 Post by Turtle Farm » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:00 pm

Second photo that did not post in my last message
881D8801-8454-4EBF-9A51-ACECB01B2D69.jpeg

Turtle Farm
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:53 pm
Age: 43
Location: USA, Pennsylvania
United States of America

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#14 Post by Turtle Farm » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:21 pm

After removing the front sight guard I got to looking at the sight base and I am not sure if it may be cocked over slightly. I did this unscientifically by roughly aligning the rear peep hole with the front sight while looking from the muzzle end. I thought it may need to rotate slightly to the right. I see there is a pin on the sight block. Would I be able to push that through and move the sight base over a bit?

Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Canada

Re: SMLE Front Sight Question

#15 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:28 pm

Knox is just the area at the rear of the barrel with the flat top.
OK, the ONLY places your barrel should contact the stock is a 1~1 1/4" long section about 3/4" wide at the bottom center of the Knox.(I candy-striped it to show) & the "pad" at the very front bottom dead center near the muzzle.
ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE SHOULD FREE FLOAT. You can test his easily with a dollar bill. It should slip under the barrel, pop up on the other side & freely slide all the way back & forth without snagging except at those areas.
The receiver should contact where it shows the dark imprint in the cutout (bedding) for the stock but it seems to be uneven at the rear in the Draws ares (green square). Exact & identical fit on the left & right here are classic causes of throwing shots off sideways.
I'd check & if needed fix the barrel channel first, see if that helps then great! if more is needed then work on the draws area.
I included an image of my correctly bedded No4 Mk2 for a comparison.
DSCF6105.JPG

Post Reply

Return to “British Empire and Commonwealth”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests