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 Post subject: 8x50R Lebel Data.....?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Buffalo Arms offers a .327" jacketed boat-tail bullet, at 208 grains, for the 8x50R. After numerous internet web searches, all the loading information I find is for .323" bullets. Is there any data out there for the .327" bullet? Thank you!

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Last edited by Roundsworth on Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 8x50R Data.....?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:54 pm 
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See if any of this is helpful:
http://surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic. ... 7&t=133645
viewtopic.php?f=152&t=113502

The 8x50R case actually has a fair amount of capacity, so LEE load data is too light and can result in stuck bullets and poor combustion.

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 Post subject: Re: 8x50R Data.....?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:30 pm 
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http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsfo ... 7o5MjUkqcM


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Excellent! The 8x50R Austrian link is good, too. I just started loading for mine. Thank you.

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Last edited by Roundsworth on Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 8x50R Data.....?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:44 pm 
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AGB-1 wrote:
http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/reply/249410/Re-Handloading-Questions-on-8x50R-Austrian#.V7o5MjUkqcM


This is for the 8X50R Austrian Steyr, different cartridge. I assume since this is posted in the French Rifle section, he means 8MM Lebel. (Yeah, I remember what my drill Sgt told me about the word "assume")

I think weaht the OP is getting at is, there's data out there for the common .323 bullets, but will the proper .327 data require a different load, much like the 6.5 Carcano with .264 vs .268 needs totally different data.


I have a Lebel and am interested in this also, never tried the .327 bullets yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:30 pm 
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US powders are not on sale in France, can't help you here with my recipes using French powders.

I get the best results with a fast burning powder, Tubal 3000, close to IMR 3031, H335, N133 powders.

Since the .327" PRVI boat tail bullets in 200grs are available in France, I have found a load of 2,42 grammes (37,35 grains) of Tu 3000 to duplicate the speed of the D bullet in the Mousquetons and carbines (640M/s) without too much recoil or muzzle blast.

I get the best accuracy out of these bullets (sorted by weight) in PRVI cases fire formed ("used once" :wink: ) and neck sized only (new PRVI cases and manufactured cartridges are undersized and a bit loose in the chamber of my rifles), RWS LR primers and 2,40 grammes (37,0 grains) of Tu 3000 at an average speed of 620M/s, finished by a medium crimp.

I use the same load for plinking with the mousquetons and 175 grains flat base bullets in.323"

Another post on the subject:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=143198

kelt


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Roundsworth wrote:
Buffalo Arms offers a .327" jacketed boat-tail bullet, at 208 grains, for the 8x50R. After numerous internet web searches, all the loading information I find is for .323" bullets. Is there any data out there for the .327" bullet? Thank you!


I have tried both the .323 (PRVI) and the .327 Buffalo arms offerings while trying to find a load for my Berthier M16. FWIW, the .323 rounds were unstable and tumbled, mine needs the .327 to shoot straight. I never noticed any appreciable difference in velocity between the two diameters. I settled on 40 grains of H4895, which yielded just under 2000 fps with the 208 grain .327 projectiles. This seemed comfortably below a max load. Here's some links to my threads which detailed my experiences:

http://surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=138154
http://surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=137263

The picture shows the Buffalo Arms 208 grainer, with the 234 grain Balle N round for comparison (which, of course, worked better than any of the current commercial offerings).


Attachments:
Berthier reloads (2).JPG
Berthier reloads (2).JPG [ 2.41 MiB | Viewed 1184 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:24 am 
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The 208grs .327" bullets sold by Buffalo Arms is shorter than the military bullets and may not work reliably in the Mle 1886-93 "Lebel" rifles when feeding from the tube magazine if the OAL is less than 71/72mm. The military cartridges for the Lebel and berthier had an OAL of 75mm.

When pulling the bolt of the Lebel to the rear to activate the feeder tray, the bullet flips up and is prevented from flying out by the overhang built in the receiver only if it is of sufficient length.


Another point, if the diameter of the bullet behind the crimping groove is .327" it duplicates the "1932N" bullet rather than the "D" bullet and depending on the thickness of the case neck it may not be safe in rifles not marked "N".

After the adoption of the Mle 1932N bullet designed for long range shooting in heavy machine guns, many Lebel and Berthier rifles still in use were modified between 1935 and 1940, the barrels were rechambered by increasing the diameter of the neck area by 0,2mm, these modified rifles are easily identified by the capital N stamped on top of receiver and barrel.


kelt


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 am 
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To put it another way, you need an inch of bullet extending out of the case for the cartridge to function properly in a Lebel. Some one came up with a cast bullet design specifically for the Lebel:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 280B-D.png

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:08 pm 
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I had been using .323 bullets in my Lebel which provided very large groups. After reading the above posts I ordered some of the Buffalo Arms .327 boat tail bullets and tried them at the range today.

Results were great: at 100 yards the group was tight. One triangular cluster of 3 shots was touching.

Thanks for the tip. :thumb:


Last edited by nrobertb on Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:10 pm 
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This sounds promising, I tried several loads with my Lebel and .323 bullets last summer, and was getting 6-8" "groups" at 100 yards, but I have cast loads for the same rifle that get 3-4". I'll have to get some of the buffalo bullets and try them.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:50 am 
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Great info! Thank you.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Vectan Powders are good stuff. I will have to test them in my 1886/93. Grafs and Sons stocks it.

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