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Cheap ammo & value of rifle.

Arisaka, Murata, Siamese, Korean, and North China Rifles
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Hammerdown
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Cheap ammo & value of rifle.

#1 Post by Hammerdown » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:22 pm

I see a lot of type 38 and 99 rifles in good shape go for under $150 all the time.
Is it because of lack of affordable ammo for them?
If there was a cheap steel case ammo at $7-8 for a 20rd box would they bring more?
I'm thinking this way because of Mosins going for over $350 now when they were imported in greater numbers then some of the Japanese rifles total number made. 7.62x54R is all over the place at a good price still. 6.5 or 7.7 Japanese is $30+ a box.
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Re: Cheap ammo & value of rifle.

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:46 pm

I would say at $150 you are finding a common shooter that has attributes such as a mismatched bolt, probable mixed parts especially to the sight, lacks an original cleaning rod or has a reproduction cleaning rod, has as a ground or canceled mum, no sling, and has an altered or refinished stock- its stock finish is not original. It most likely will be a Type 99 or 38 rifle, not a carbine. Now add the attribute conditions of a matching bolt, correct parts, original cleaning rod, correct finish on the stock, and an intact mum, you climb to the $250-450 price range. Add an original sling and some documentations of its owner & source, you get into the $400-600 price range. Throw in the original shipping box that the rifle was sent home in with and its papers and you got one valuable Arasaka. An intact stock with Japanese cartouches and original finish go about a little less than an intact finish K98 stock sells for say $200-400. Most do not fire their safe queens.
Yes, 6.5 and 7.7 ammo is costly and one has to reload it if you shoot your $100-150 shooter. Chamber space is generous, so maybe about 5 reloads to the brass. I like my brass to be marked properly, not some reformed brass. Hornady, Norma or PCI- Precision is brass cased ammo.
I remember prior to Saving Private Ryan, Pacific, & Band of Brothers when the Carcano, Arasaka, and French rifles were considered low end garbage at gun shows during the 1980s & 1990s. Now, This it is not a fact. Arisakas in bring back condition command a high buck. At least at gun shows in WI.
If Prvi made some Japanese ammo at $20 a box, that might be better for the shooters. I am not sure that many collectors really do heavy shooting with rifles where the ammo is 2-4 bucks a round. I am not sure a dog rifle even with cheeper ammo would rise in price. Most buyers want top condition intact specimens at todays crazy prices. Sporters like chopped K98s and Ariaskas are only worth the value of the parts. Mainly the bolt. This is a form of another cheep shooter no one seems to buy at high prices- the value is in the possible parts one may need on such an example. While great shooters, there's not much demand for the cut up, modified military hunting sporters even with reasonable priced ammo. A different instance is found with the the French, .32 French long pistols: the 1935 A & S pistols. Fine shooters- but no cheep ammo. Cases have to be hand machined and those sexy pistols throw the $2 cases into the next field. Hence, they sort of remain at the $300- 500 category of pistols that only a few people dabble with. Now that is a pistol someone like Prvi should make ammo for. It would sell even at .75-to a buck a round. Then the value of the 1935 series pistols would climb to the $600-800 range. I do not see this happening with the common mismatched, refinished, dog Arisakas, too many hate that odd bolt. If you are going to pay top buck you want a nice complete specimen. Most would not even shoot it.

Also Enfields and Arisakas seem to have lots of chamber space and I like brass cases for expansion, not steel. Too much expansion and I want something I can reload.

There was also the nice Mosins when ammo was 5 cents a round that no one wanted to buy. Here was the reason. The first R-Guns Mosin 91/30s had a huge, and I mean, nasty, billboard huge in 1/2 letters import mark plastered all over the top of the receiver. These came onto the scene while most had the import mark on the bottom of the barrel. I have not found any pictures of this import mark because the old pictures from the ancient posts were killed by photobucket's pay to play. These 91/30 rifles were priced fair, but because the import mark was so shockingly huge, no one, not even the shooters, wanted to buy them at a fair price even with cheep ammo- approximately $30-35 per tin. They just sat at the shows until dealers sold them at their price to get rid of them. R-Guns was a big joke back then. I can not remember the year those nasty R-Guns Mosins came out. But no one wanted them due to the billboard import mark.
It has been so long ago, my first ones were purchased in late 1997- mostly M91s. Back then the Mosin Nagant’s popularity was propelled by the simple fact that they were dirt cheep. A WW II rifle that shot well and surplus ammo was sitting all over the place. They first flooded the market at $49 a rifle, most were under a $100 and came in a paper wrap with a free spam can of 440 rounds of Albanian 7.62x54R. I think the R-Guns huge import mark came out when the feds changed the import mark rules around 2002 to be stamped in a “conspicuous” spot, no longer on the barrel. Importers began marking the receivers. I wish someone had a picture of one of these dogs with such an import mark.
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Re: Cheap ammo & value of rifle.

#3 Post by Reverend Mauser » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:04 pm

This is a question answerable by basic economics: price of related goods as a factor of demand. If related goods are expensive, it means demand for the product will be less. (and vice versa).

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Re: Cheap ammo & value of rifle.

#4 Post by jbrower » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:02 am

Privi Partizan makes 6.5 and 7.7 JAP brass and it is not hard to find, nor are 6.5 and .311 bullets. If you have the reloading gear you can certainly make your own ammo for these rifles. The fact that factory loaded ammo is scarce for them drives the price down and makes them more of a bargain to the reloader.

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