Last ditch value

[rob]

A friend of mine was cleaning out his aunt's house and found a last ditch Arasaka with the mum ground in fair condition. I would like to purchase it from him, what is a value on this
Thanks for your help

[lthilsdorf]

Hard to say without a few more details. Let's assume it's matching with the original finish and hasn't been redone in any way by the vet who brought it back:

If it's a common rifle, like an 8th series Nagoya or 35th series Toyo Kogyo, $250 would be a fair price.

For something like a rope hole 11th series Nagoya, $800 would be fair.

As you can see, if it's a rare piece it may be worth considerably more. If you want to be sure to give him a fair price, find out the arsenal, series number, and if it matches. Typically a last ditch rifle will only match via the bolt handle, striker, and safety. If it's mismatched or the finish is messed with, the rifle may not be worth picking up for much. Use this site to get the basic information mentioned above. If you can get a photo of the overall rifle, that will help determine if it's anything super special.

Hope this helps!

http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

[rob]

I will get to see it in person this weekend, he sent me a couple pictures. From the pictures I can tell it has the crude sights and a barrel shaped bolt instead of the egg shaped one

[72 usmc]

The rifle is just a rifle, BUT PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
FIND OUT IF IT IS A BRING BACK or a later post war gun store purchase. What proof exists to prove it's a bring back? CHERCK FOR PAPERS> If you have the bring back papers or a close up photo of the vet in WW II holding the rifle, then it is a bring back. It is always best to have some written or photographic provenience with the rifle from the family. Have the former owner write down her story about what her dad told her. Get a picture and as much info on the vet. Do some research and see where he served. Get any remaining personal items you can. Or make copies of any remaining family documents they do not want to part with. Most bring backs have intact mums and slings with matching parts. Some have carved in art/grafitti like a name and date or have a stamped /engraved brass tag attached. Any provenience that you can obtain will increase its historical value.

You known the rifle is real, but you must always attempt to obtain as much information as possible to document such a treasure. Otherwise it's just a rifle, like others at a gun show... And with a ground mum just another Last ditch- I hate ground mum examples. It's just a story lacking prov., you know what they say, buy the rifle, not the story. A last ditch complete with sling and rod, maybe the bayonet and you are getting close to a nice find, but WI is awash of ground mum Arisaka' s so value is down on ground mum rifles. In other states they may be hard to find , hence price will be more. Price is region specific. It depends on the person, I would not even want it unless it has papers or a decent sling.

See if the papers can be found. With documented proof it becomes a historical treasure. Get the vets name, unit, serial number, rank and a letter providing information about that rifle. Get a photo of the vet in uniform. Please consider getting more documentation ---copies or the original items like orders, letters, uniforms, photos of the vet. Get any other items he might have got back. Get any WW II equipment and uniforms he owned, his dog tags and bayonet-maybe the helmet. His GI trunk? Have the seller tell the story in a letter she dates and signs. When searching out WW II bring backs think PROVENIENCE and DOCUMENTATION. The rifle then becomes a historical treasure, not just a rifle. If it is a bring back please search out & document that treasure.
You can find out service & military records for the vet under a FOLD3 search, but you have to be a member see https://www.fold3.com/?xid=2052&slid=&p ... 5Bfold3%5D

Price depends on its type, its condition, and its markings. WAS THE STOCK REFINISHED? DOES THE BOLT MATCH?
Then think markings and series- is it a type 99? Does it have the short cleaning rod. Is the sling still on the rifle- the sling may be worth more than the rifle? It it a rare series? Is it complete? Ground mums are commonly found at shows.
Heck, if it's a school rifle you may not want it.

I suggest you reference Peterson's price guide. see

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=42450
Also see http://www.castle-thunder.com/rifles.htm
http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-September00.html
http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/Jap_T99 ... ersion.htm

In the end, a no risk chance offer for just a rifle lacking any documented history... say $175 if the stock remains intact- no refinish. You got a dog to hang on the wall or a stock you can resell. Parts value. If the stock is refinished, it's a dog- bolt is worth $50. Cleaning rod $35-50

If you got a lot of things you want to package the deal, then throw out one price for the group, not each individual item-that way you get more of a deal. Grab all the military stuff, books, hunting stuff, ammo what ever you want before a estate buyer or antique dealer gets to the estate. Move fast. Give it approximately $200 and if it's an odd bird you make out, if not, you paid what you would at a gun show. The estate buyers are flying above for a kill. That friend will be lucky to get 50% of the value. Spend too much time researching and reading this and it's gone. Stop reading and buy it.

[72 usmc]

A friend of mine was cleaning out his aunt's house and found a last ditch Arasaka with the mum ground in fair condition. I would like to purchase it from him,

I will get to see it in person this weekend,

Well did you get the rifle? We need to see pics please.

[rob]

Haven't got it yet, he has a 1911 that I am going to buy so I am going to work a deal on both. Thinking the Arasaka is a school rifle in rough shape so probably not much value, it has the box it was shipped back with it

[rob]

I got the rifle, not much in the way of markings and no visible serial number. I will try to post pics

[lthilsdorf]

Nice rifle. Looks like a Jinsen based on the stock and rear sight type. It will be a 40th series. Jinsens started off that series with pretty nice rifles, but quickly devolved into the last ditch style. Can't quite tell the serial number on yours, and can't see the arsenal mark, but I'm pretty certain on this. Hard to find Jinsens with the mum, so no big deal there. They have a different style of numbering on the bolt, with the number parallel to the bolt handle instead of going across as on most Arisakas. Late Jinsens should only match on the bolt, safety, and striker. Stock finish looks correct. Good find overall.

Did it end up coming with the box it was shipped in?

[rob]

Came with the box but it is in rough shape. It's made of plywood and delaminating pretty bad.
Also there are no parts in the mag well

[lthilsdorf]

You can purchase the mag intenals pretty easily or eBay or pick them up on a WTB ad. Those aren't hard to find. Post some photos of the crate if you can. Those are interesting in and of themselves. If there is still a name on it, even better.

[72 usmc]

BOX , did someone say original shipping box
That may be more interesting than the rifle. WE NEED LOTS OF PICS OF THE BOX

Floor plate, spring, and follower can be had at most big gun shows or flee bay. The last small local gun show had 10 last ditch, missing mums, bring backs complete at $125 to 200. He only sold 2. No takers. But not one had the papers, history, or box- his dad got them back in the 1960 when they were 15-20 bucks. No slings either. The one that sold had a shrapnel fragment and burn mark on the wood. That was $200, but was sold when I walked up to the table- a second too late.
Please lets see the box.

[rob]

Here are some box pics. As you can see it's coming apart pretty bad I have to move I gently

[rob]

Here are some pics of the bolt