Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

Gew88, Gew98, Kar98 etc.
Message
Author
72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#31 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:03 am

The Belgian contract K98ks are made by Fabrique National, FN and is a new made rifle. It is not fabricated with surplus German parts. Hence, no German proofs or Nazi markings are present on the rifle. These are said to have been made in 1952 and are chambered in 7.62 NATO. They are not 8mm converted to 7.62 Nato K98s. Some of the attributes on my example include the following. The most obvious attribute is the IDF crest with 7.62 stamped above it on the receiver. The stock is beech wood with no cleaning rod channel cut for a cleaning rod. There is no cleaning rod with this K98. In large numbers, "7.62" is also burned/branded into the heal of the stock. The stock has a metal cupped butt plate with a take down hole in the plate. There is no take down washer on the stock. These generally have an Israeli made German K98 style sling. Its sling fittings are brass. show a photo. No German WW II markings are visible on my example. On the left side are two Hebrew letters above the serial number- the Tsadik and nunn. The left rail is marked "FAB. NAT. D'ARMES de GUERRE" and below this is "HERSTAL-BELGIQUE". It does not have an enlarger winter trigger guard and the floor plate is milled and removable. I am unsure if there is also a stamped floor plate . insert 5 photos
IDF crest photo 2
FN IDF crest  2.jpg
stock 7.62 burn 5
IDF stock 7.62 5.png
task nun photo 3
israeli tsadik nunn photo 3.jpg
israeli tsadik nunn photo 3.jpg (32.61 KiB) Viewed 2758 times
REC Rail photo 4
Screen Shot   john rec rail IDF 4.png
yellow decal 6
Screen Sho t yellow decal IDF 6.png
Screen Sho t yellow decal IDF 6.png (72.47 KiB) Viewed 2758 times
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#32 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:13 am

FN variety. I think they all have removable milled floor plates. It does have the small lock screws to hold the trigger guard's main screws. The rear band has a sling bar on the left side. Some of these rifles in really nice shape also have a yellow decal - an Israeli inspection sticker attached to the left side of the butt stock- mine is missing, but it left a mark on the stock where it is was originally located.

My recently acquired rifle with example photos are provided here:
insert lm photos folder 10 here 14 photos:
IMG_0142.JPG
IMG_0144.JPG
IMG_1007.JPG
IMG_1008.JPG
IMG_1010.JPG
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#33 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:15 am

More photos of the same rifle FN
IMG_1009.JPG
IMG_1011.JPG
IMG_1013.JPG
IMG_1016.JPG
IMG_1017.JPG
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#34 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 am

more photos of the same FN, sling
IMG_1003.JPG
IMG_1004.JPG
IMG_1019.JPG
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#35 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:18 am

If I remember correctly, the unissued looking FN mausers first appeared around the late 1980s. They came out of Israel and were imported by Armscorp imports and most were like new, mint rifles with the yellow inspection decals. Much later, sometime around 2004, Century Arms imported a bunch out of Guatemala. These are really well used FN rifles. This later batch from Century Arms are very worn and have seen long use in service, most have sewer pipe bores. A key attribute for identification is the beat, worn out, dragged behind a truck overall condition; think about finding the most beat mauser you have ever seen and you got the idea. Worse than a common Turk mauser. These FN K98ks can be seen in a rack two rows away at a show. When you work your way over to the table; then you can pick up the worst k98 on the rack and look for the above mentioned attributes. Check the bore and check the bolt's head space. You may be lucky and find one in fair condition.

Israeli mausers can be a mixed bag of different types and many different versions exist. When they fist were imported they were cheep at around 80 bucks a rifle. Some of the early imports lack import marks and are in great condition. Israeli K98ks rifles were sold by Hunters lodge, Ye Old Hunter and Navy Arms. The 2000 Surplus Firearms magazine has a
full page Gibbs Rifle Company ad selling the Israeli Rampant Lion crested K98k with the 7.62 conversion as well as the FN Israeli mauser.
insert gibbs ad 7
gibbs rifles  ad 7.JPG
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#36 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 am

Rampant Lion Crested Israeli K98k Mauser

The Czech, post war made K98k with the Rampant Lion crest with the "7.62" stamped above the crest at the forward edge of the receiver is a rare find today. The only ones I have ever seen at shows have been examples that went through the late 1950s, Israeli, 7.62 Nato conversion and have a blued metal with "7.62" stamped on the receiver. I have never seen one in 8mm lacking the "7.62" stamp and still having some Israeli proof marks on it. It is really lucky to find one of these Rampant Lion crested K98s at a gun show and if you actually see one, you will not like its price.
Insert lion 20 and 21 photos
israeli-k98-brno-Lion  20.jpg
israeli-k98-brno-Lion 20.jpg (75.01 KiB) Viewed 2754 times
Rampant lion 7.62 Israeli mauser 21.jpg
I do not own an example of a Rampant Lion Israeli marked K98k. However, the most obvious identification attribute is the deeply roll marked Rampant Lion crest and the "7.62" stamped above the crest. The left side may possibly have a very small Czechoslovakia acceptance lion stamp, but all will have some Israeli inspector proof marks such as a star with a J inside, or a circle with a Y inside. The left side rail will be marked "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO." Some of these rifles will have the Armscorp import mark "ARMSCORP SLVR SPG MO MOD 98" This is found by the lower rear sight. Generally, the two I actually saw a long time ago had a stamped matching receiver and bolt and excellent bores. It is much easier to find a Rampant Lion crested VZ 24 than an Israeli marked Rampant Lion crested K98k. These Czech made K98s went through the rebuild program where Israel rebarrelled them to 7.62, rebuilt, restocked, and reblued the rifle. Both the receiver and the heel of the stock are marked "7.62". These two specimens had post war Czech made receivers with a small lion Czech mark on the left side of the receiver.

insert unknown lion photo 23
unknown on line source Lion example .jpg 23.jpg
The above photo is from an on line search an its source is unknown, but it is the finest condition example I have seen. I’d love to find one of these in this condition with an intact yellow tag at a gun show. Rampant Lion Israeli marked K98k rebuilt rifles ended up as a mixture of mismatched or unnumbered parts - however the receiver and bolt matched. These had stamped numbers, no electro written numbers. The floor plates were milled and removable. The rifle had a normal trigger guard - no stamped winter trigger guard. The stocks were replacement beech wood stocks with grasping grooves and had the "7.62" burned deeply into the heel of the stock. Since I do not own an example, I can not provide any other attributes or finer details about this specific Israeli mauser. If you see one under $600, buy it. It has been ten years since I have even seen one at a WI gun show.

This concludes my comments about some of the post war Israeli mausers that can be generally found as surplus rifles at gun shows. I am sure there are many more variations and rare specimens I do not know about. I would say the FN made Israeli mauser is easiest to find with the Israeli proofed K98k still in original 8mm being the hardest to find. The 2004 Century Arms imported Guatemalan Israeli FN mausers with little blue, out of headspace mismatched bolts, beat stock dogs are more common at recent shows, but best avoided due to their poor bores and overall poor condition.

Two other types of capture, abandoned after WW II /reclaimed K98ks are the French Capture K98 and the Norwegian Capture K98s. Both are somewhat hard to come by. It would be a great find at a gun show to stumble onto a fair priced example. One still sees these at shows, however their price is no longer cheep. Nowadays, the Norwegian specimen should be considered a rare find and cost about $700 or more.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#37 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:27 am

French Captured K98k

insert my 4 LM photos in folder 7
IMG_0990.JPG
IMG_0991.JPG
IMG_0992.JPG
IMG_0993.JPG
I own an example of a French capture K98k. These are best identified by three features not always present on the same rifle. First, the most common attribute is the French altered stock for a French Berthier/Mas sling. Just behind the take down washer on the left side of the German stock, the French cut a "U" shaped cutout and added a French sling bar like found on Berthiers. This was done to most K98ks in French service. They apparently did not use a German sling, but preferred their wider French sling. This sling modification is found on all French used K98s that I have seen at shows.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#38 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:31 am

insert photo 1
LM french sling cut 1.JPG
The second feature found on some rifles is an odd, short, hex shaped stacking rod in place of the German bayonet attachment rod. This hexagonal rod is positioned in place of the bayonet attachment rod and is used for stacking rifles. Mine does not have this feature.
insert photo2
Jimmy C photo rod 2 .jpg
The third easy to spot feature is a small French stamped star on the upper receiver or on the left side in front of the serial number. Again mine does not have a French star.
insert jimmy c photo from link 3
Jimmy C photo  French star  3.jpeg
Jimmy C photo French star 3.jpeg (14.52 KiB) Viewed 2753 times
Here is a link to comments on French Captures with some great photos provided by Jimmy C on gun boards:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... user-k98-s

Also here is an additional specimen with some great photos:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php ... pture-K98k
insert rifle from above photo 4
example french capture hollow points pic. 4.jpg

I admit that I do not know much about these rifles. Some of the examples are basically German K98s with the addition of the French altered sling bar and cut. Some have two of these above mentioned attributes, some all three. My example appears to be a surplus WW II rifle that was checked for function and had little French modifications other than the stock modification and some restamping of serial numbers. My French capture K98k is a byf 44 with a stamped trigger guard and stamped, removable floor plate, each is marked byf. The bands are unmarked, stamped and welded, late war style. It came with an original German sling, cleaning rod, and sight hood. The original 8mm barrel matches the receiver and the bolt is force matched. The bolt flat and bolt sleeve have been ground and renumbered to match by restamped numbers. The font does not match the receiver's German font. In addition, the cocking piece is force matched by using the same 3 digit serial number except that on the cocking piece, it is electro written. This is the only evidence of electro writing on the rifle. The safety lever has been ground, but not renumbered. The action has not been out of the wood so I do not know the other markings. Stock finish is original, but dark from use. Dirty birds remain intact. So my specimen is basically an intact German K98. The only French modification to this rifle appears to be the addition of the French sling cut and the modification to German mismatched bolt. The French ground and renumbered the bolt to match the receiver rather than leaving a mismatched bolt. See my 4 photos. So the French did alter serial numbers to match the rifles. The few examples I have seen do not show evidence of pinged Nazi markings. I am sure many variations exist. In sum, the most obvious trait for identification is the French altered sling cut.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#39 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:33 am

Norwegian K98k in 30-06

These are really hard to find and price is sky high. I saw one of these at a gun show about 15 years ago. I do not own an example so no fine details can be discussed. There is a nice review of the Norwegian K98 in the Milsurps.com Knowledge Library by Badger with photos by Claven2. Badger’s reviews direct search look for: 1943 Norwegian K98k (.30-06) Mauser Rifle (Mfg by J.P. Sauer und Sohn)by Badger;
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... -und-Sohn)

Here is the major portion of the article for those with older computers where the link does not work.
The K98k was the primary infantry rifle for the German Wehrmacht during World War II. The "k" is for Kurz, which means "short" in German. Norway was occupied by German forces throughout the bulk of the war and when the Reich surrendered to allied forces in 1945, General Franz Böhme announced the unconditional surrender of German troops in Norway on May 7, the same day as Jodl signed the unconditional surrender document on behalf of the Third Reich, Hitler having committed suicide several days earlier. When the surrender came there were no fewer than 400,000 German troops in Norway, which at that time had a population of barely 4 million. It has been estimated that on the order of 300,000 to 350,000 K98k rifles were turned in to Norwegian authorities.

When the war concluded, the Norwegian government had no organized armed forces to speak of, and even fewer arms than men, mostly outdated Krag Jorgensen rifles. On the other hand, vast quantities of Wehrmacht equipment was readily available and Norway wisely chose to adopt most of it for its own use. In fact, there were far more K98k rifles available than there were men in the Norwegian armed forces, so a number of rifles were broken down for spares. Serial number and maker code observations tend to support the theory that approximately 200,000 to 250,000 rifles were made serviceable, while the remainder were scrapped for spare parts. The latest codes one are likely to encounter date to 1943, and as such, it can be safely assumed that the late-war production rifles in Norway were among the first rifles to be parted out, the production quality of the barrels and receivers having been sacrificed to the exigencies of war. Additionally, when one encounters replaced parts on earlier vintage rifles refurbished in Norway, the liklihood of finding late-war parts used as replacement is exceedingly high.

Initially, Norway issued the rifles in the original 8mm Mauser chambering. At the close of the 1940's, however, Norway found itself increasingly under the US-dominated western sphere of political influence. A byproduct of this political reality was that the United States was ready to make available quantities of military materiel to it's Norwegian allies, including huge quantities of .30-06 ammunition. As the stocks of captured German ammunition were rapidly being depleted, it made sense to adopt the .30-06 cartridge as a new standard. Beginning in 1953, as rifles were returned to the Kongsberg arms depot, re-barrelled eaxamples in .30-06 were issued to replace them in service. By the end of 1954, all the K98k rifles in service with the Army (HÆR) and Air Force (FLY) would have been issued in .30-06, while the Navy (KNM) retained the original 8x57JS chambering to completely deplete existing stores of ammunition. Other groups within Norway also received .30-06 converted K98k with their own branch markings, but these are exceedingly rare today.

Here is a complete list:

HÆR....... Hæren (Army)
HV......... Heimevernet (rough equivalent of the National Guard)
FLY......... Flyvåpenet (Air Force)
KNM....... Kongelige Norske Marine (Navy)
K.ART..... Kistartilleriet (Coastal Artillery)
NSB....... Norges Statsbaner (Norwegian State Railway Police)
POLITI.... Polizia (Department of Justice & Police)

Changes made during the .30-06 conversion entailed:

- Re-barrelling in 7.62mm (.30-06),
- Altering the rear sight ladder to a "U" notch,
- Altering the front sight to a square post instead of an inverted V and altering its height to correspond to .30-06 balistics,
- Lengthening the trigger guard magazine well to accommodate the .30-06 round,
- Milling a half-moon cut into the rear of the receiver ring to accommodate .30-06 spitzer ammunition,
- Milling a flat into the side of the receiver ring to accommodate branch of service markings and a new serial number,
- Canceling out of the old German serial number and adding Norwegian firing proofs,
- Extending the mag well mill cut in the stock,
- Re-seriallizing the bolt handle root and the butt-plate to match the new serial number,
- Installing a dowel through the dish cut are of the stock to re-inforce the trigger mill cut web of the stock due to increased recoil,
- Reblueing the rifle and adding a thin coat of varnish to the stock wood. Wood was also lightly sanded if deemed necessary.

After the United States adopted the 7.62x51mm (7.62 NATO) Nato standard round, Norway experimented with converting their Mauser K98k stocks to 7.62 NATO as well. Many of the barrels were manufactured, but only a few thousand rifles were ever converted before Norway decided (in 1966) to relegate the K98k to war reserve and adopt the AG-3, a version of the H&K G3 battle rifle in 7.62 NATO. 7.62 NATO K98k Mausers from Norway are not commonly encountered today, though several retail outlets in the US have sold batches of the 7.62mm NATO barrels manufactured for the planned and subsequently cancelled conversion effort.

After the 7.62 NATO version was officially patterned and adopted in limited numbers, the nomenclature changed to K98kF2 for the 7.62 NATO version of the rifle and K98kF1 for the .30-06 version. The last of these mausers was relegated to war reserve in approximately 1973 and sold off stocks began to appear on the North American surplus markets in the early 1980's. No Norwegian Mauser rifles are likely to appear on the primary retail market again, as all remaining rifles are being destroyed as part of Norway's participation in a United Nations arms non-proliferation treaty.
A photo overview by Claaven 2 ’s Norwegian rifle is shown here direct search title:1943 Norwegian K98k Mauser Rifle
1943 Norwegian K98k (.30-06) Mauser Rifle (Mfg by J.P. Sauer und Sohn)

http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/cgnmils ... mauserrifl

Around 1952 Norway switched to the 30-06 caliber and the Nazi K98 rifles left in Norway were rebuilt and rechambered to 30-06. Specific details are mentioned by Badger in the above reference. The key attribute is that the rifle was rebarrelled with modifications to other parts of the rifle to accommodate the use of the 30-06 cartridge. It should be noted that stock modifications occurred due to the lengthening the trigger guard mag well for a longer cartridge and placement of a dowel to reenforce stock. Hence, it is easy to spot a Norwegian stock utilized as a replacement stock on a German k98. Stewarts Military Antiques sells some Norwegian Mauser parts and stocks are generally offered. For specific original items see listings under “K98 Mauser Stocks & Accessories. Here is one of their reference listing:
http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques.com ... rchive.htm

insert photo 1
30-06 norwegion K 98  1.jpg
The best trait to identify a Norwegian K98k is the difference in the receiver shape and barrel markings on the left side of the rifle. On a rebuilt 30-06, K98, the barrel is marked "KAL 7.62 M/M" , below this in slightly smaller font is "30 - 06". This is seen on the left side with the 30-06 marking at the wood line. On the round receiver on the left side above the original German serial number there is a milled flat spot continuing the length of the receiver. On this flat is stamped the Norwegian branch of service (1 of 7 possible branches) that the rifle belongs to and a new Norwegian serial number. For example "HAER-- 565". There are two serial numbers present on the rifle: the original German # and the new Norwegian serial #. In addition, the original German receiver codes remain intact on the top of the receiver. The bolt is ground and restamped to force match the rebuilt rifle to the new Norwegian serial number found on the receiver's flat. This Norwegian serial number is also applied to the back of the butt plate. However, the floor plate and trigger guard still retain the original German serial number on the receiver. They do not match the new Norwegian serial number found on the receiver flat. Likewise, most of the other parts as well as the barrel bands will match the original German serial number including the stock. You do not see line outs or electropencil marks on 30-06 Norwegian K98ks. Slings on these rifles are WW II German. See a fine example a Norwegian k98 with excellent photo documentation at the Libertytreecollectors Reference library:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... roduct=728

So in summary, the receiver markings are the best attribute to identify a rare Norwegian K98k. It's the only K98 with a flat ground onto the left side of the receiver. If you actually see one, you best buy it, I still regret not buying the one I saw at a WI show. For finer points and a discussion of additional attributes, I refer you to Badger's excellent article. Link is here, a direct search title is: 1943 Norwegian K98k (.30-06) Mauser Rifle (Mfg by J.P. Sauer und Sohn) by Badger
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... -und-Sohn)
Additional photos and info here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=252


http://www.theakforum.net/forums/49-eas ... k98-s.html
Quotes from above link: see Dan parts 1 & 2
Re: Norwegian Capture K98's
I have two of them, both in excellent condition. My 7,62x63/.30-06 appeared to never have been fired after it got the new barrel sometime in the 50s, and my 7,92x57 one has an excellent original barrel. One is made in 1938, and the other in 1939 and are made from the steel quality the Germans liked to refer to as 'Krupp Steel'. Both guns have Norwegian stamps on the left-hand side of the receiver.

They can be had for 200-250 USD over here.

In Norwegian service, the standard German K98k with original barrel in 7,92x57 was called 'M98k' and was issued to the Norwegian Navy. 'M98k' is short for 'Modell 1898, Karabin', which an be translated as 'Model of 1898, Carbine'. The K98ks which were converted to 7,62x63/.30-06, were called 'M98k F1'. 'F1' is short for 'Forandring #1', which can be translated to English as 'Alternation #1', refering to the barrel/caliber change. These guns were issued to the Army Land Forces, Air Force, Coastal Artillery and Home Guards. They were used by the Home Guards Youth division up until about fifteen years ago. That was pretty cool really, at age 16, one could sign up for volunteer service in the Home Guards, receive military training, and were given a WW2 Mauser to keep at home. Nowadays the Home Guards Youth division uses AG-3 [HK G3A3/'A5'] assault rifles which have a blocked selector, so that the gun can fire in semi only, and I don't think that they can actually store the guns at home anymore.

For those who have one, or are thinking about a purchase, here is what the receiver markings mean;

HÆR = Army Land Forces
FLY [short for 'Flyvåpen'] = Air Force
KNM [short for 'Kongelige Norske Marine'] = Royal Norwegian Navy
K.ART [short for 'Kystartilleri'] = Coastal Artillery
HV [short for 'Heimevern'] = Home Guards
POLITI = Police [G33/40 only]


I'm currently in the process of obtaining a quite rare 1940 G33/40 'Gebirgsjägerkarabiner' in the original caliber. This rifle is quite interesting, since it does not have any Norwegian stamps on it, i.e. it has not been used by the Norwegian Armed Forces or Police after the war. [People could buy these rifles dirt cheap in the years after the war.] The Norwegian police actually also used the G33/40 up until [if remember correctly] sometime in the in the late 60/early 70s. These guns are marked with a stamping with the Norwegian coat of arms [lion in a shield] and the word 'Politi'. They have the original German barrels in 7,92x57, and are often referred to as 'Police Mauser', or even 'Elephant Mauser' because of the strong recoil and the huge muzzle flash.

For the last few months of my army service, I carried a NM-149 F1 DMR rifle. These rifles were custom made for the army by a Norwegian gunsmithing business, and were heavily converted G33/40s with a slightly redsigned safety catch, a Schmidt & Bender 6x42 scope, long heavy barrel in 7,62x51 NATO, custom laminate stock, and had a front sight and a flash hider not unlike that of the AG-3 assault rifle. It was a good and very accurate rifle, but rather heavy to drag around in the field with. Funny thing about the NM-149s were that the rifles were serialized after the serial number on the scope.



-Dan-

Re: Norwegian Capture K98's
Quote Originally Posted by INFANTRY
Not sure if the Norwegians just refurbed captured 98's or if the srarted building all parts including receivers.
No, no major parts were made domestically for our Armed Forces' Mausers, with the exception of laminate stocks. If a rifle became so badly damaged during its Norwegian army service that the stock was considerd to be beyond repair, it would simply receive either a good used German take-off stock or a new Norwegian-made laminate stock. The Norwegian replacement stocks were identical to the German ones with the exception of the markings. German butt plates etc were still being used with the new stocks. Some civilian enterprises made custom aftermarket parts for the civilian Mauser market though, such as safety catches, mag well covers, scope mounts, hunting-type stock sets and trigger systems and so on.


Quote Originally Posted by Hootbro
Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
How many K98's do you think the Norwegians got?
Not as many as the Russian did. Depending on sources, there was 300K-400K German troops in Norway when they capitulated on May 8th 1945. I would speculate that maybe 150K K98's would be a rough guess as not all of these troops would have been line infantry as it was mainly a administrative occupation force.
I once read in a Norwegian weapons magazine that there were about 220.000 German Mauser rifles left in Norway when the war ended. All of these became the property of the Norwegian Goverment. Huge amounts of these rifles were dumped out at sea, together with vast quantities of other stuff from the many German coastal fortresses, even the coastal artillery cannons and such things as the Biber one-man submarines. After the Armed Forces had taken their share of the leftovers of the Mausers, the remaining stocks were sold off to the public. Considering that a great number of the said 220.000 Mausers were dumped out at sea, I think it is reasonable to assume, like Hootbro suggested, that something like 150.000 guns would be left for the Norwegian Armed Forces to pick from. The Norwegian Armed Forces picked only guns from the best production years, which means that the chances of finding Norwegian-stamped ex-German Mausers made in 1944 and 45 are pretty slim [probably the same thing with 1943 Mausers, too].

In addition to German-manufactured weapons of all different makes, the German occupation forces also used great quantites of captured Norwegian Krag-Jørgensen rifles, Belgian, Czech and Yugo Mausers and even some French rifles, together with great numbers of Norwegian-made Madsen MGs and a number of Czech and Yugo MGs. A bizarre footnote here, is that after the German Wehrmacht carried out the huge October, 1941 massacre in Kragujevac, Serbia, where, among many others, a great portion of the workers of the Crvena Zastava weapons factory [today's Zastava Arms; manufacturer of the 'Yugo AK'] was executed, a great number of the plant workers were sent to Northern Norway to work as slave laborers. A document from the German Reichskommisar in Norway, Josef Terboven, ordered the camp commandants to make the Serbs live under [quote;] 'the worst possible living conditions', as part of an experiment in human endurance under critical circumstances. These death camps, where the Crvena Zastava weapons plant workers and Yugoslavian partisans were literally worked, beaten, shot, starved and tortured to death, were guarded by SS-Totenkopfverbände troops armed with weapons manufactured at the Crvena Zastava plant.

As for pistols, the German occupation forces used both captured ex-Norwegian Army Nagant revolvers [of both Belgian and Swedish manufacture] and Colt M1914 [Norwegian-made licenced copy of the M1911, pre-A1 type], together with a whole variety of Polish Radoms, Belgium High-Powers etc and even captured American Colts along with the standard German models.

One elderly gent I spoke to, told me about the time when he took part in cleaning out German depots and coastal fortresses in the autumn/winter of 1945. They went out with boats to a nearby 2000-feet deep fjord and dumped huge amounts of Mauser rifles overboard. Ten rifles bound together with a sling, and *splash*, into the deep they went. They did the same thing with enormous amounts of steel helmets, boxes of hand grenades and ammunition, artillery powder charges and shells, land mines, FLAK anti-aircraft guns and everything else you can imagine. Bayonets were dumped by the thousands, and 'impractical' model MGs, like Maxims and so on that had been used as stationary MGs on coastal fortresses, received the same treatment. [Some of these Maxims were weapons captured on the Eastern Front, and was chambered for 7,62x54R.]

Another gent I once spoke to, told me how they bulldozed plenty of German fighter and bomber planes out on the runway of an airstrip a bit North of where I live. The planes, mostly JU-88, Me-109 and FW-190s, were then used as landfill in the end of the runway.

A third gent I spoke with, told me how he took part in burning everything they could find inside the Norwegian Waffen-SS training camp outside Holmestrand, south-eastern Norway. They spent two days during the summer of 1945 hauling uniforms and camoflage equipment, boxes full of insignia etc, and tossed them on to huge bonfires.

[My greatest hobby is what happened in my country during WW2; I have spent a great deal of time over the past almost twenty years travelling around the country and interviewing people about their WW2 experiences. AKs are only a good number two on my priority list ]


Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
Are the Norwegian barrels good?
Excellent. Not saying that because I'm Norwegian, but out of experience. The steel quality in the Norwegian barrels together with the worksmanship of the Kongsberg workers, made the Norwegian barrels equal on all points to the brilliant Swedish Mauser barrels. [As a side note; just check out the machining qualities and steel quality of the Norwegian Krag-Jørgensen rifles. Nothing sounds smoother than a Norwegian Krag mechanism. ]


Quote Originally Posted by INFANTRY
I agree with Hoobro's Numbers on the amount of k98's in country during the German occupation, but they receiver many more after the war to help build up their military. Remember, they used M1's post war also.
To my knowledge, we didn't receive any further Mauser 98s from abroad after the end of WW2. I would think that there were already enough Mausers in-country at the time. [I'm not 100% sure though, so I am by no means claiming that you are wrong. ] We did however, like you said, receive a substantional amount of US weaponry, like M1 Carbines, M1 Garands, Browning BARs, .50 BMGs and even some Thompsons and folding-stock M1 Carbines. The fixed-stock US Carbine was also used by the Norwegian Police, together with the above mentioned Mauser G33/40.


Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
Nice info. It's amazing that you can get a K98 for so cheap there. Here in the US, we can barely get a Russian capture for that price if even. Then again, you guys have your own K98's lying around. Ours have to be shipped over from Russia and Yugoslavia.
Funny thing about that, is that over here, you have to pay almost twice the cost of a Mauser to get a good collectors-grade Mosin. And what may come as an even bigger surprise, is that used WASR-type Romanian semi AKs used to go for a lot over 1000 dollars. Even more strange, is that for about the same price, you could get a milled semi Valmet, and for the equivalent of 2000 US dollars, you can [if you're lucky to find one] get an original Zastava M76 with the mil-spec third pin receiver.


Quote Originally Posted by Stottman
I visited Norway to train in 2000; Earned my Norwegian Parachute badge.

As someone mentioned, the Norwegians allow firearms, to include full auto. From what I understand, Norwegians can actually bring stuff back from Afghanistan.


I seem to recall hearing that the K98s were recently sold off, but that TransArms in Germany bid out American firms. Not sure how true that it..
Nice to hear that you have been to Norway, I hope you liked it here.

I am one of the 'lucky few' with the full-auto collector's licence that you mentioned. This is a thing that is very hard to get. Clean record and documentation of purpose for collecting and all that. You have to be recommended by more than one long-time collector's licence holder, and you have to be on a waiting list for 24 months before you are eventually accepted and much more, too much to list. A DUI, for example, is enough to lose the licence, since it is considered 'irresponsible behaviour and lack of proper judgement made under the influence of alcohol'.

You are probably right about some of our Mausers being sold to Germany. A German friend of mine told me that they can now buy both live and de-activated ex-Norwegian Mausers down there, for prices that are a lot higher than what they cost here in Norway. [As a side note, while de-activated WW2 bolt guns are still legal to sell in Norway, de-activated modern machine weapons, such as the AK and the M-16 etc, are not, and to my knowledge has never been, legal in Norway. They are legal to some extent in most of the EU countries including Germany and the UK, but Norway is not part of the EU. In addition, further imports and sales, even private sales from one citizen to another, of semi-automatic 'assault weapons' are also banned now, unless the receipient has the state-approved collector's licence. It's absolutely crazy; a private citizen without the collector's licence can't buy Romanian PSLs because they look 'evil', but he can still buy the much more accurate 'cozy-looking' 9,3x62 or .30-06 Valmet Hunter, which is basically an even more powerful AK/PSL, only with a hunting stock. Saigas aren't sold any longer except for types with really long barrels, due to the whole 'concealment' issue, and opening mag wells for high-cap mags is a serious offense. In any case, there has never really been a lot of semi-automatic 'assault rifles' on the Norwegian market in the first place. There are even fewer full-autos.]



-Dan-
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:55 am, edited 7 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#40 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:37 am

Conclusion

All of these mentioned rifles were made to the same standards as a German K98k. All should be considered well made. Any would make good shooters. The RC mauser and ex Czech scrubbed mauser with the Czech crossed-sword proofs are found in like-new, rebuilt condition. Likewise the FN Israeli mauser is a great choice. These three are still readily available at shows and can still be found at fair market value. If you are lucky enough to find an Israeli Rampant Lion crested mauser or Norwegian mauser you will pay a lot more. And if you got tons of cash all shows have a few bring back original WW II K98ks. I favor the 8mm chambered rifles, but if the price is right do not pass up a .308 NATO conversion. Finally, not mentioned is the 1941 Portuguese contract K98k. I have never seen one and that would be like finding a bring back. Look for that Portuguese crest, buy it, and let us know its characteristics.

insert crest photo1
Screen Shot  Ref Lib Concl portuguese crest k98  .png
For a review of a Portuguese K98k see Badger’s 2007 addition to the Milsurp Knowledge Library at this link, a direct search title is: 1941 Portuguese Contract K98k Rifle (Mfg by Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf a/N) by Badger
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... ndorf-a-N)

Here is a view of a portion of the article for those with old computers where the link does not work, but many other information video links are shown in the link.
The K98k was the primary infantry rifle for the German Wehrmacht during World War II. The "k" is for Kurz, which means "short" in German. The post WW1 sale of German rifles to Portugal began as early as 1931, with the delivery of a number of pre-K98k Standard Gewehr rifles (not to be confused with the Standard Model). These early commercial contract Mausers were beautifully blued with deep, clear markings. The Portuguese crest was stamped on top of the receiver above the date of manufacture and the proofs and waffenampts were all standard German markings of the period, but the legend "MAUSER WERKE A.G. OBERNDORF A.N." replaced the usual "Mod.98" model designation on the left side of the receiver.

By the 1940's, the K98k Mausers being produced for portugal had changed from the earlier Standard Gewehr to virtually exact copies of a circa 1941 Nazi K98k complete with cupped butt-plate, but retaining the marking scheme of the earlier Portuguese contract Mausers with a crested receiver and the Oberndorf receiver roll-stamp. Large numbers of these later K98k rifles, however, were never delivered to Portugal. Losses by the Whermacht forced the Germans to commandeer the rifles for the Reich. The above example is of this second type of Portuguese Contract Mauser which copies the K98k, though it is now impossible to say if it was delivered to Portugal or diverted to German service. To compensate the Portuguese for the loss of these rifles, in 1942 and 1943 The Reich reclaimed a number of issued random K98k rifles from the Wehrmacht and delivered them to Portugal. The Portuguese later stamped their national crest into the butt-stocks of these rifles.

Aside from the Portuguese crest and commercial style receiver side-wall roll stamp, these rifles are materially identical to 1941 Mauser Oberndorf K98k Wehrmacht issue rifles, including Nazi WaA markings and Eagles clutching Swastikas for firing and inspection proofs.

And for an excellent pictoral overview ( 182 photos) of a 1941 Portuguese Mauser Werke AG K98k see this link, a direct search for the pictorial overview title is: 1941 Portuguese Mauser Werke AG K98k
K98k (7.92 x 57mm) 1941 Portuguese Contract Serial # H5243 (Mfg by Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf a/N)

http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/germans ... &m=24&p=24


So ends the easy to find K98k's. For those that are lucky and have the cash it's always nice to have an actual German K98k matching with sling or a k98 with just a miss matched bolt that actually matches itself. With bring back papers even better :dance: :dance:
Unfortunately it is an expensive adventure. :think:
All additions, more photos of examples, comments, or corrections are welcomed.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

indy1919a4
Bullet Banger
Bullet Banger
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:23 pm
Age: 56
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#41 Post by indy1919a4 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:49 am

WOW Just Wow and thanks

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#42 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:18 pm

Here is a link to a 2006 Mitchell's Owners manual. see pages 4-6, it's really kind of funny- they spread it on pretty thick:
http://www.mauser.org/wp-content/upload ... Manual.pdf
Here is better info for beginners on the k98 at mausershooters.org. Just click on any of the 5 headers:
http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/SC_tips.html
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
Firearm Fanatic
Firearm Fanatic
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 67
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#43 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:34 pm

A short review of what is a kriegsmodell?
seehttp://www.latewar.com/html/kriegsmodel.htm
from the above but lacks the great pics: so see the link.
Many people have asked the question "What is a Kriegsmodell?". Well, the answer is easy. The term Kriegsmodell is what the Germans used to define the simplified version of the standard 98k, or literally translated as "War Model". Many of the features of Kriegsmodell rifles were simply shortcuts instituted by the German armaments industry to speed up production of rifles at a time when quantities of guns were needed- not quality. Many of these changes were instituted in late 1944 (Nov.-Dec.) and were almost in full effect by January of 1945.

All manufacturers went to simplified versions to one degree or another, but the 2 most common terms thrown about are "Full Kriegsmodell" and "Semi Kriegsmodell". These terms are modern descriptions for collectors. A "Full Kriegsmodell" will have no bolt disassembly disc in the buttstock, a hole drilled in the buttplate to aid in disassembly, no band spring for the front and rear bands, no bayonet lug, and both bands will be held to the stock with screws. The only manufacturers to completely switch to the "Full Kriegsmodell" style were bnz and byf/svw. The others never fully switched over, and are known as "Semi Kriegsmodell".

A "Semi Kriegmodell" will have a mix of features, such as no bayonet lug or band spring, screws holding the front and rear band, but still have the standard buttstock with bolt disassembly disc- this style is found on dou and dot/swp marked rifles. On some bcd rifles, the stock will not have a disassembly disc, have a hole drilled in the buttplate, but still have the bayonet lug and bands held by a band spring- BCD never finished switching over, and 45 dated rifles will be found in regular configuration earlier in the 5 digit serial ranges.



Some other features of Kriegsmodell rifles are phosphate finishes, less serial numbered parts, rough metal finish, and trigger guards that lack the small locking screw provision.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

VMASCIOP2000
Member
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:41 am
Age: 63
Location: oakdale minnesota
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#44 Post by VMASCIOP2000 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Thanks for the great picture review. All fine. I especially liked the Mitchel info. The Israeli Mausers are still my favorite.
I was R.L.E.V.M. on our old forum.

indy1919a4
Bullet Banger
Bullet Banger
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:23 pm
Age: 56
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
United States of America

Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#45 Post by indy1919a4 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:34 pm

VMASCIOP2000 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm
Thanks for the great picture review. All fine. I especially liked the Mitchel info. The Israeli Mausers are still my favorite.
I also love Israeli Mausers.. Not only a fascinating History.. But there is such a wonderful range of Mauser variations in that little subset alone.
In the Newstand now there is a magazine called Military Surplus magazine.. They have a nice little article on Israeli Mausers..

The photo of that the op posted with the Rampant Lion is just wonderful

Post Reply

Return to “German Rifles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests