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Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

Gew88, Gew98, Kar98 etc.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#46 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:52 pm

That issue is still at Walmart and Cabelas stores on the mag racks. It is the Athlon Publications 2017 # 202 :arrow: MILITARY SURPLUS: 2018 ultimate resource to militaria $9 .95. See pages 104-112, Israeli K98s: How the fledgling Jewish state found an unlikely ally from behind the iron curtain by Darrin Weaver. Some great pics and the Israeli equipment like the bayonet, sling, and cleaning kits. Here is a link to the issue review:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=1281

For those asking it was at Walmart's and Cabela's book racks also you can contact Athlon Publications for a back issue. This is a fantastic issue you want to own because most magazines become the hard to find grey literature. At the end of the comments, I posted photo shots of the "print only" area so you can read it. The best part - the pictures, you will have to search out this fine magazine. I strongly suggest you buy a copy- it is too good to pass up. Two great magazines are this 2018 issue of Military Surplus and the recent 2017 Rifle sporting Firearms Journal GUNS OF WORLD WAR I. These were the best magazines in the racks in 2017.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#47 Post by indy1919a4 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:28 pm

Many thanks.. again 72usmc

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#48 Post by dynachrome » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 pm

Wow.Thanks for the very detailed info. I did see one 1941 Portuguese Mauser that had been sent back to Germany and used/marked by the army. It was at cabelas and was $1400. Probably not a bad price. It was in very good shape.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#49 Post by PennsylvaniaRifleman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:45 pm

Great resource--thanks 72USMC! You inspired me to pull out my Kar98k, which I have always presumed to be a Romanian capture. It is a duv 42, and I see that I paid $145 for it in August of 1994--that was full retail price at the Blue Sky Gun Shop in King of Prussia PA (now long gone unfortunately). It was paying that kind of "high" price that inspired me shortly thereafter to get my first C&R license...

Anyway, it has the Century import mark (faintly stamped) on the barrel: CAI ST. ALB VT., K98 GERMANY 8MM. It is all-matching except for the bolt, which matches itself. The finish is thin but appears to be original. The stock has no markings other than the original (but very faint) German serial number stamped on the underside of buttstock below the wrist (the handguard has the matching serial number stamped inside the channel). I added a repro sling, sight hood and cleaning rod. Curiously, as opposed to the apparently standard practice for Eastern European (non-Russian) captures, all of the German proofs, including birds and swastikas, are intact. There are no peen marks or punch strikes to be found on it anywhere. The bore is about average, and it is a great shooter. Here's some pics...
Attachments
CAI Kar98k (2).JPG
CAI Kar98k (1).JPG
CAI Kar98k (5).JPG

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#50 Post by PennsylvaniaRifleman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:55 pm

some more pics...
Attachments
Kar98k (10).JPG
Kar98k (11).JPG
CAI Kar98k (4).JPG

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#51 Post by vandle » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:28 pm

Thanks 72 usmc for taking the time to put this post together. This is a very valuable source of information for the members on the forum.

Very nice rifle PennsylvaniaRifleman, like the laminated stock
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#52 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:22 pm

PennsylvaniaRifleman, so the the bolt matches itself?? Looks like a matching rifle except the bolt???? Do the bands match? One fine K98k. Thanks for the detailed photos. Except for that import mark, that would be a high price item for a faker to remove the import mark. Fantastic rifle. Worthy of an original rod, sling and hood :dance:

addedPennsylvaniaRifleman thanks for all the pictures and the ones you added. Thank You for showing the import mark and its location. This is an example of a TRUE GERMAN UNMOLESTED K98k seen in the mid 1980s. ONE FINE RIFLE. Back then there were many bring backs and it was considered bad news because it had the import mark. How things have changed...
CURRENTLY, This is a great example of early K98ks sold in the US around the mid 1980s to 1990s that were in Europe and were basically all German capture /arsenal rifles that are basically similar to bring backs except the they were reimported by sellers and have an import mark on the barrel. I have seen matching lugers like this condition, but have an import mark. It gets no better for a German K98 specimen because it's a true all German K98k that was in some arsenal after the war. Perfect unmolested condition- better then some actual bring backs except for the import mark. Such a rifle in this condition with the import mark at $600 would be a deal of the show. It would be a lucky day indeed to have an old guy walk into a show and want to sell such a beauty he picked up in the early 90s. A true German K98, just with an import mark. You do not see these any more because most have been purchased and modified into a "BRING BACK".

Here is a caution...
Now, this is a prime rifle that a faker would buy at top buck and then remove the import mark on the barrel, and then add an original cleaning rod, sight hood, and sling on it and sell it for $1500 plus. So you really have to look at the barrel on top buck bring backs at gun shows to be sure there is no evidence of import mark removal. Pay close attention to the surface of the barrel-- does the scratches/ wear & milling marks match all around the barrel? Does the blue match or is there discoloration. Is the metal too smooth from a polish job? Is there evidence of a flat or lower surface? Is the patina similar around the barrel? Are milling lines going in two directions? And this is just one point to consider, a true collector knows what marks, parts, color are correct for each maker the K98. This is a rifle that most fakers would easily return to a supposed "bring back" condition. Hence, always have an expert K98 collector experienced with expensive bring backs look at a K98 if you are paying big bucks. Heck, a real collector of K98ks would consider the K98k rifles I review as common junk.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#53 Post by PennsylvaniaRifleman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:34 pm

72 usmc wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:22 pm
PennsylvaniaRifleman does the bolt match or is it a miss match but the bolt matches itself?? Looks like a matching rifle except the bolt???? Do the bands match? One fine K98k. Thanks for the detailed photos.
Yes--everything but the bolt matches, and the bolt does match itself. You're welcome for the photos--it's the least I can do to help build on the knowledge base you've created with this great thread! Here's some more:
Attachments
Kar98k (7).JPG
Kar98k (2).JPG
Kar98k (3).JPG

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#54 Post by Zeliard » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:02 am

Wow, really nice write-up 72USMC! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#55 Post by Ernest T » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:03 am

Really appreciate all the detailed info on German rifles! I think that German rifles are the hardest rifles for collectors to get a handle on. For that reason, right now I only own one k98, bought from a reputable dealer, and not cheap. I would love to own a k98 sniper, but prices for one are out of my range for now.

This information makes things much clearer, but I would probably still want to have an expert review any potential purchases that I would make!

Thanks again for all the time to put this together took!

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#56 Post by sheepdawg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Very nice write up, my only disagreement is the quality of the Mitchell's reblue. The last one I saw was a total slop job, it reeked of fake. Perhaps the Mitchell's monkeys were playing grabass at the bluing tank that day.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#57 Post by jaytex1969 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:36 am

Gee... Thought I'd pop in for a few minutes' reading.

90 minutes later....

Great stuff here!

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#58 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:19 pm

It has come to my attention that Military Surplus Collectors Forum has a limit of how many times you can see their Knowledge Library. I
guess just another reason our forum is so user friendly. Unfortunately, The many fine SRF reference stickys are lost. Hence, I used MSCF. So under the links :arrow: :arrow: :cry: https://milsurps.com/content php... you may see
the message "It appears you've exceeded the maximum number of posts and/or Knowledge Library articles you can view as an unregistered guest on our forums..." Then you have to do a direct goggle search using the title which I am adding. Their Knowledge Library is fantastic, just that they do not like to share it too much. :snooty: :think: :violin:
It is well worth the search for these few links, if you have also used up all your access possibilities you just become a member or have to relog in. I am reloging in and hope that will allow everyone to see their links again. I will add the title of each link for their great info in RED so you can do a direct goggle search and see the info. Most non members can view these for a unspecific number of views. You just have to do a search on your computer and not use the link I provided if it becomes inactive again. Sorry.
Ok. as of 1 Feb 18 links work and the title of the Badger and photos references from the Milsurp Knowledge library are placed in RED so the reader can do their own goggle search and gain access to this fine Library. These are the only references I linked too that have limited access.
I have added the primary body of info as a QUOTE because the older computers like a 2003 Mac will not be able to read the link. Pictures do not appear as well as other neat use full information the Library provides. This way all readers can view their main comments. I hope this helps.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#59 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 am

Oxford's info on K98s , see pdf. He does not list what book this came from???
Numbers of East German and Czech refurbished Karabiner 98ks were exported to the West in the late 1980s and early 1990s and are now in the hands of collectors." http://www.2ndgebirgsjager.com/uploa...1957/w_k98.pdf

Use this link:
http://www.2ndgebirgsjager.com/uploads/ ... /w_k98.pdf

Some post war K98k info from the above excellent link ( lots of good info in the above link and photos):
Post-World War II
During World War II, the Soviet Union captured millions of Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles and re-furbished them in various arms factories in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These rifles were originally stored in the event of future hostilities with the Western Bloc. These rifles, referred to by collectors as RC ("Russian Capture") Mausers, can be identified by a crude "X" stamp on the left side of the receiver, the dull, thick reblueing and mismatched parts and electro-pencil serial numbers on smaller parts. The Soviet arsenals made no effort to match the rifle's original parts by serial number when reassembling them, and some parts (the cleaning rod, sight hood, and locking screws) were deemed unnecessary and melted down for scrap metal.
Most of these rifles were eventually shipped to communist or Marxist revolutionary movements and nations around the world during the early Cold War period. A steady supply of free surplus military firearms was one way that Moscow could support these movements and states without giving them the latest Soviet infantry weapons.
One example of the Soviet Union providing the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle (as well as other infantry weapons captured from the Germans during and after World War II) to its communist allies during the Cold War period occurred during the Vietnam War with the Soviet Union providing military aid to the armed forces of North Vietnam and to the NLF in South Vietnam.
A considerable number of Soviet-captured Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles (as well as a number of Karabiner 98k rifles that were left behind by the French after the First Indochina War) were found in the hands of NLF (Vietcong) guerrillas and VPA (NVA) soldiers by U.S. and Allied forces alongside Soviet-bloc rifles like the Mosin-Nagant, the SKS, and the AK-47.
In the years after World War II, a number of European nations on both
sides of the Iron Curtain that were invaded and occupied by Nazi
Germany used the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle as their standard-issue
infantry rifle, due to the large number of German weapons that were
left behind by the Germans at the end of World War II. Nations like
France and Norway used the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle and a number
of other German weapons in the years after World War II. Norway's
captured Karabiner 98k rifles were soon superseded as a standard issue
weapon by the US M1 Garand, but remained in service as Norwegian
Home Guard weapons until at least the 1970s, in which role they were
rebarreled for the Garand's .30-06 Springfield round, with a small
cutout in the receiver so that the slightly longer US round could still be
loaded with stripper clips. These Norwegian conversions had a section of the receiver flattened on the upper left side, where a new serial number (with a prefix denoting the branch of service) was stamped. Some of these rifles conversions were rechambered again to 7.62 mm NATO, but this program was canceled with only a few thousand converted when Norway adopted the AG-3 (H&K G3) as a replacement for both the Garand and the K98k. Some actions from Mauser Karabiner 98k left by German armed forces in 1945 were used by Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk (currently Kongsberg Small Arms) for building both military and civilian sniper/target rifles under the Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk Skarpskyttergevær M59 - Mauser M59 and Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk Skarpskyttergevær M67 - Mauser M67 designations. These rifles were used by the Norwegian armed forces up to the 2000s.
Schultz & Larsen of Denmark also made target rifle conversions of captured Kar 98ks. Early versions, the M52 and M58, used shortened and refurbished Kar 98k stocks. Later versions had new target stocks fitted and were available in .30-06, 6.5x55mm and 7.62 mm NATO, and generally resemble the Kongsberg M59, except there was no upper handguard or cleaning rod. The actions had the German markings removed, were refinished in grey phosphate, and new serial numbers and proof marks applied.
The emblem of Nazi Germany, eagle with swastika, is still visible on many of the rifles that were used by the Norwegian military. The "FLY" prefix to the serial number denotes that this rifle was issued to the Flyvåpenet (Air Force).

Karabiner 98k
6
Many of the liberated European countries continued production of rifles similar to the Karabiner 98k, for example Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium and Česká Zbrojovka (CZ) in Czechoslovakia produced both their proprietary older models and brand new Karabiner 98k rifles, many of which were assembled from leftover German parts or using captured machinery. Both FN and CZ utilized a modified Kriegsmodell design, with the cleaning rod and stock disk still omitted, but the bayonet lug restored. In Czechoslovakia it was known as P-18 or puška vz.98N, the first being the manufacturer's cover designation of the type, the second official army designation - rifle model 98, N for německá - German. In Romania, the Czechoslovak version was known under the informal name of ZB, after Zbrojovka Brno - the Czechoslovak state producer of small weapons and munitions - and it was used to arm Romania's Patriotic Guards, before sufficient numbers of Soviet AKM rifles were made available for them.
Former German Karabiner 98ks were widely distributed throughout the Eastern Bloc, some being refurbished 2 or 3 times by different factories. They were used by military and para-military forces (such as the East German Workers and Soldiers Militias), and were replaced by Soviet weapons in the 1960s. East German refurbished Karabiner 98ks featured Russian-style thicker blue finish, a 'sunburst' proof mark and sometimes had the factory designation '1001' applied, which was the factory where the refurbishment was carried out. Numbers were re-stamped to match the receiver and old numbers barred out. Numbers of East German and Czech refurbished Karabiner 98ks were exported to the West in the late 1980s and early 1990s and are now in the hands of collectors. Russian Capture Karabiner 98ks were exported to the West in large numbers in the early- and mid- 2000s.
From 1950 to 1965, Yugoslavian Zastava also produced a near-copy of the Karabiner 98k called the Model 1948, which differed from the German rifle in that it had the shorter bolt-action of the Yugoslav M1924 series of rifles (not to be confused with the widely-distributed Czech Vz 24 which had a standard length action). Zastava also refurbished numbers of German Karabiner 98k rifles. These are readily identifiable as the German factory code markings have been scrubbed from the receiver and replaced with the Yugoslav communist crest. The M48 and refurbished Kar 98ks were still being used in the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
In addition, until 1953, the Spanish continued manufacturing a slightly modified version, but with a straight bolt handle and minor furniture differences.
Post-war production was a stop-gap solution until enough numbers of modern automatic rifles could be developed and produced. The vast majority of these rifles were soon stored as reserve weapons or given for very low prices to various fledgling states or rebel movements throughout the developing world.
Israeli Mauser
A number of non-European nations used the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle as well as a few guerrilla organizations to help establish new nation-states. One example was Israel who used the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle from the late 1940s until the 1970s.
The use of the Karabiner 98k to establish the nation-state of Israel often raises a lot of interest among people and rifle collectors today. Many Jewish organizations in Palestine acquired them from post-World War II Europe to protect various Jewish settlements from Arab attack as well as to carry out guerrilla operations against British Army
East German members of a Combat Group of the Working Class and Border Troops at the border of the Berlin sector in 1961. The Combat Group members are equipped with Karabiner 98ks.
Close-up of the K98k Bolt action

Karabiner 98k
7
forces in Palestine.
The Haganah, which later evolved into the modern-day Israel Defense Forces, was one of the Jewish armed groups in Palestine that brought large numbers of Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles and other surplus arms (namely the British Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifle, which was used on a large scale by these organisations alongside the Karabiner 98k rifle) from Europe during the post-World War 2 period. Many, though not all, Israeli-used German surplus Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles have had all of the Nazi Waffenamt markings and emblems defaced with over stamped Israel Defence Force (IDF) and Hebrew markings as part of an effort to ideologically "purify" the rifles from their former use as an infantry weapon of Nazi Germany.
As the Arab-Israeli conflict approached, the Haganah and other Jewish forces in Palestine tried to get hold of as many weapons as they could in the face of an arms embargo by British colonial authorities. One of most important purchases was a secret January 14 1948, $12,280,000 worth contract with Czechoslovak Government including 4,500 P-18 rifles, as well as 50,400,000 rounds of ammunition. Later, the newly established Israel Defence Force ordered more numbers of Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles, produced this time by Fabrique Nationale. These have Israeli and Belgian markings on the rifle as well as the emblem of the IDF on the top of the rifle's receiver. The FN-made Karabiner 98k rifles with the IDF markings and emblem on the rifle were produced and sold "legally" to Israel after it established itself as an independent nation in 1948. The Israeli Karabiner 98k utilized the same bayonet design as in German service, with a barrel ring added. The Israeli bayonets were a mix of converted German production and domestically produced examples.
During the late 1950s, the IDF converted the calibre of their Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles from the original German 7.92 mm round to 7.62 mm NATO following the adoption of the FN FAL rifle as their primary rifle in 1958. The Israeli Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles that were converted have "7.62" engraved on the rifle receiver. Rifles with original German stocks have "7.62" burned into the heel of the rifle stock for identification and to separate the 7.62 NATO rifles from the original 7.92 mm versions of the weapon still in service or held in reserve. Some Karabiner 98k rifles were fitted with new, unnumbered beech stocks of recent manufacture, while others retained their original furniture. All of these converted rifles were proof-fired for service.
The Karabiner 98k rifle was used by the reserve branches of the IDF well into the 1960s and 1970s and saw action in the hands of various support and line-of-communications troops during the 1967 Six-Day War and the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. After the rifle was retired from reserve military service, the Israeli Mauser Karabiner 98k was given to a number of Third World nations as military aid by the Israelis during the 1970s and 1980's, and sold as ex-military surplus on the open market.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#60 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:58 pm

Due to suggestions here is a portion of the Israeli K98s magazine article showing the print area only. You should be able to read this as a photo shot. This is ISRAELI K98s by Darrin Weaver, PP 104-111 in Military Surplus 2018 issue that is so hard to find. Just contact the publisher and get a back issue. This is only one of many fantastic articles in this issue see review link with contents list post above. Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=1281
I have no idea how to turn these sorry, odd in my desk top folder they all view upright :doh: :snooty: :think: I guess it just makes reading more a challenge. For the life of me I can not turn these and they appear correct on my desk top :angry-tappingfoot: :confusion-confused:
P105.JPG
p 106.JPG
p  107.JPG
p 108.JPG
p109.JPG
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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