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Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

Gew88, Gew98, Kar98 etc.
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72 usmc
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#16 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:04 am

Photo 9 asterisk
mitch mauser aask 9.jpeg
mitch mauser aask 9.jpeg (8.81 KiB) Viewed 2229 times
One dead giveaway as to the rifle's origin as a former Russian Capture is the RC's deeply stamped, horizontal, serial number on the left side of the stock. Due to its deep stamp, it can not be sanded away, therefore it still remains on a Mitchell rebuilt K98k. The wood looks new but the former RC number remains in this photo.
insert wood & serial # photo 8
mitchel mauser wood & serial number 8.jpeg
mitchel mauser wood & serial number 8.jpeg (14.24 KiB) Viewed 2229 times


The German code and date remain on the receivers. On examples I have seen, only receivers with clear stampings were generally selected for their better rifles. Some Nazi markings are altered or added to make rare rifles. There are no electro pencil markings, no pinged dirty birds, no shellac on the stock, and the bolt, butt plate, and stock washer are in the bright. The rifle comes with a cleaning rod and sight hood. Mitchell's Mauser's can be identified by an import stamp that contains “MMC FV CA” or “MCC Fountain Vly CA” usually stamped on the barrel. The MMC is the key to its identification.

In conclusion, I would say the Mitchell Mauser K98k can be considered a contemporary replica for shooters that do not have the same concerns of a true military collector. It is a well built, accurate, like new rifle with dubious markings that comes in a cool box at a somewhat high price. If you want an expensive great shooter that looks like a K98k with no historical value, this is a great rifle. It looks better than a non firing Denix replica to hang on the office wall. Some want a nice clean rifle to hang up- not a dirty bring back. I do not really consider them a true surplus rifle due to the Mitchell conversion.

The best Mitchell import marked K98k rifle is one that was rejected for rebuild. It was never tinkered with. Early in the marketing some of the rejects were sold as common RCs by Mitchells. It has the Mitchell's import mark on the barrel (MMC), but no other modifications were done to this lucky RC specimen. It is still a Russian capture, just that it's poor condition saved it from a replica-like conversion to a spic & span Mitchell’s K98k. These Russian captures have the Mitchell import mark on the barrel and were sold by Mitchell's as discards around 2006-2009. If I remember right, these were seen in old shotgun news ads. Considering all of the above, and factoring in the Mitchell price, I would rather have a nice gunsmith, 1950s professionally sporterized, K98 conversion of an original bring back as a shooter for my buck or just the RC with a MMC import mark.

Here are some of my comments from an old SRF post in 2012 a quote from my section that was lost in the SRF 2017 crash:


QUOTE
RC $300-500 vs Mitchell $ 400-800 old 2012 price
Mitchell is a completely redone, rehashed, scrubbed & renumbered, perfectly new like K98 that will shoot fine.
No historical value what so ever, zip

An RC will have a reddish to dark brown stock, the Mitchell a blond refinished to new, light colored stock--no aged patina. No shellac on an original K98 just an oiled finish with patina

The RC will have a heavy sand mark on the left where the Russians restamped the stock, with the serial # . The Mitchell will not exhibit heavy sanding at one spot where it has the former RC renumber on stock. On original K98 bring backs there is no serial # on the left side. Numbers were under the butt or in the barrel channel.

An RC ( most) will have a black blued bolt with electro serial number on the top ( this is forced match to the stamped original receiver #), Mitchell will have a renumber to match, stamped, sliver - polished like new bolt. Original K98 will have the bolt in the blue (Not in the White), all matching numbers on bolt that match receiver.

The RC receiver most likely will have the large "X ." Mitchell an Asterisk. Original K98s do not. The RC & Mitchell will have an import mark, Original K98 bring backs do not have import marks.

An RC will have a mix of serial numbers on the parts some will have line outs with electro # to match the receiver # ( variations do exist). THE Mitchell will be scrubbed and (FAKED) renumbered to match on all parts no line outs an all matching K98 Ha! Original K98s will have all matching numbers, or all most all matching. The bolt could match itself ,but not the rifle, due to mix ups while cleaning in the field. All parts will be correct style for the year. On a RC or Mitchell there is a mixture of late war and early war parts- machined and stamped parts - incorrect parts wrong style stock for the year.

Electro numbers on RC, Never on a Mitchell- all nicely restamped

The RC will generally come without a cleaning rod, sight hood, capture screws on the trigger assy. screws and sling ( Now some add originals after they buy an RC). Mitchells will have repro. sight hoods, repro cleaning rods, repro. capture screws, and a repro. sling as it comes. Original K98s generally have original cleaning rod, sight hood and capture screws. Early ones have code # stamped on screws. And an original sling may be present. Ya Hoo! to that.

The RC can have Nazi markings intact or more likely pinged out on the dirty birds. Generally the swastika is punched and appears as a dot - nicely done ping to remove the swastika leaving the stamped dot . All Nazi markings are intact on the Mitchell, and you may actually have some fake marks added!
As of 19 Feb 2018, I have added a section in the comments, showing boxes and the restamped serial number close up views of the Mitchell K98
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#17 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:07 am

Romanian/Albanian/Balkan K98k Captures


For an example of a Romanian/Balkan pictorial overview of a rifle owned by GunnyUSMC see:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Blac ... 14-427566/
I own one of these. Romanian/Balkan capture K98k rifles show considerable wear. It is mostly found as an almost matching rifle; parts match except for the bolt and maybe the floor plate. Some have unnumbered floor plates. These rifles have not gone through a total rebuild. Stocks match and these have not been cleaned, redone, or refinished. The trigger guard and its receiver/barrel action matches, as well as the bands, but the bolt is a miss match. The bolts match to themselves. Sometimes the firing pin is unmatched, but all other bolt parts generally match. The rifle has correct inspector marks and milled vs stamped parts for the receiver's code. The serial number font is correct for a German font- not like the number font observed on restamped Mitchell's Mausers. It was never shellacked, never electro-pencilled, the S/N was not stamped into the left side of butt stock, and the action was not subjected to a re-blued. They look like a mauser with a very worn, original blued finish where 90% of the blue is gone. Something you generally see on beat Turkish mausers. These K98ks appear as battle worn rifles with average bores and with well rounded edges on most of the metal parts. These Balkan rifles have a unique style of defacement to the German inspection marks and dirty birds. While the German code and year remain intact on the receiver, any eagles above the code are really peened out. The Waffenamts and WaAs are obliterated, totally defaced. here are some examples of defacement common on these K98s:
insert photos 1-6
balkan deface 1.JPG
balkin deface 2.JPG
balkan deface 3.jpg
Balkan defaced nazi markings balkan capture 4.jpg
balkin deface 5.jpg
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#18 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:10 am

Another deface of receiver top photo:
Balkan peened eagle 6.png
Balkan peened eagle 6.png (308.94 KiB) Viewed 2228 times

There are major differences between an RC (Russian Capture) and these Romanian/Balkan capture rifles. Here are some of there listed attributes to help identify a Romanian/Balkan K98k. An RC will have a reddish to dark red-brown stock, the Romanian will have a well worn, original stock with dark walnut color, showing an aged patina. No shellac on a Romanian/Balkan K98, just an oiled finish with lots of patina and stock numbers inside that generally match the receiver. Some of these stocks are in fair original condition, mine is well used.

The RC will have a heavy sanded mark on the left where the Russians deeply re-stamped the stock with the serial # horizontal to the barrel. The Romanian mauser will not exhibit sanding. There is no serial # restamped on the left side. Original SN numbers are found under the butt plate ??, under the hand guard, and stamped in the barrel channel.

An RC (most) will have a black-blued bolt with a hand etched, electro written, serial number on its top. Some have removed the SN number and buffed the bolt so it is in the white. In contrast, there is no etched SN on the Romanian capture's bolt top. The bolt is an original German bolt. It is almost always a miss matched bolt, but the bolt matches itself or possibly the bolt body is different from all the other bolt parts, but the internal parts will match. The bolt will look unblued, but a closer look will show traces of blue on the bolt. It will exhibit the correct German number font on the # stampings. Balkan specimens will have an aged patina and does not look like a polished new bolt seen on a Mitchell, nor the fresh blued bolt seen on an RC.

The RC receiver most likely will have the large "X " on the receiver's top or left side of the ring. There is no "X" on the Romanian receiver. While mostly intact, any German eagle above the code on a Romanian/Balkan import will be obliterated by multiple sharp tipped strikes. On most RCs these eagles remain intact.

The RC & Romanian will both have an import mark. The RC a new blue-black finish. The Romanian/Balkan capture will have considerable patina and wear. Almost no blue will remain on the metal. Parts are well used.

An RC will have a crazy mix of serial numbers on the parts. RC = MIXMASTER. Most have line outs with electro penciled numbers to match the receiver # (variations do exist). A Mitchell’s Mauser will be scrubbed and (FAKED) renumbered to match with the WRONG font for a K98k German mauser. Generally, all parts will be of the correct style for the year on a Romanian. There can be a few miss matched parts, but generally all the parts on the rifle match except the bolt, floorplate, maybe the hand guard and/or a few other small parts that may be replacements. There is no mixture of late war and early war parts--- milled vs stamped parts - incorrect parts or the wrong style stock for the year as found on RC Mausers.

Electro penciled, handwritten, numbers on an RC. Never done on the Romanian captures that I have seen????

The RC will generally come without a cleaning rod, sight hood, or capture screws. No sling (now some owners add originals after they buy an RC). Mitchells will have reproduction sight hoods, repro. cleaning rods, repro. capture screws, and a repro. sling as it comes out of the box. My Romanian K98k capture came with a beat sight hood and original cleaning rod. Inter Ordnance Romanian K98ks came lacking cleaning rods, none have been observed as arriving with original slings.

On an RC the butt plate and take down washer is blued by Ivan. On a Romanian K98k the bolt take down washer and the butt plate are in the white and not blued.

The RC can have Nazi markings intact or more likely neatly pinged out on the dirty birds. Generally the swastika is punched and appears as a dot - a nicely done ping to remove the swastika leaving the stamped dot. All Nazi markings are intact on the Mitchell, and you may actually have some fake marks added! In contrast and clearly more obvious on the Romanian/Balkan capture, the key attribute for identification is that the dirty birds and/or WaAs are punched out with many little chisel-like hits or pings. They really wanted to deface these marks. This is how the RC & Romanian K98ks really differ. The Russians were less concerned about destroying the Nazi markings on the receiver and barrel. Those Romanians really wanted them gone. They are not hit with a single ping, rather lots of peck marks are used to obliterate the Nazi marks. see photo examples. Interestingly, the dirty birds and WaA markings were not ground like an Arisaka's mum, but hit hundreds of times with little stab marks to obliterate the mark.

Romanian specimens have import marks that are found on barrel. No billboard import mark on the receiver. Most were sold prior to 2010. Some have Inter Ordnance, others CAI import marks. The "I O Inc. Monroe NC" Inter Ordnance import mark dates to 2000 when these Romanian/Balkan imports were dumped on the market. Both IO and Century were selling these in the mid 1990s and 2000. A Century import mark appears as " K98 GERMAN 8mm" second line : "CAI St. Alb. VT".

In summary, most Romanian/Balkan surplus K98k examples are well used mausers that are generally somewhat beat and heavily worn, with lots of patina and character to the rifle. The bolt and its action is generally worn, but they still make nice shooters. They have an original stock that matches the action with lots of dings, scratches, and dents to the dark patinated finish. Watch out for "sewer pipe" bores, most barrels were described as only fair to average.
SEE THIS: http://www.cruffler.com/review-may-00.html

A cloud link to the former SRF 2005 pre crash post called “Romanian (Balkan) CaptureK98k specimens” can be found here but most photos are long gone.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13

click on this


25 March 2018 see the added info on page 6 , PARTISAN RIFLES
Unusually, this rifle (The K98added by me) has a CAI import mark on the barrel. Normally the expectation is that Tito rifles were imported pre-1968. This rifle may have been imported with the similarly imported Gew98m on this site, and probably came from Albania. If it had come from Romania, the Nazi eagles would have been peened away; from Yugoslavia, it would have been refurbished, or imported as-is pre-'68; from Greece, been imported pre-'68.
source http://partisanrifles.weebly.com
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#19 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:16 am

Czechoslovakian K98k Introduction

The last group of somewhat easy to find surplus K98k rifles to look for on a budget minded bankroll are the Post-War Czechoslovakian K98ks with the winter trigger. There is also the Czech made 8mm K98k with the Rampant Lion crest and the Czech refurbished WW II German coded rifles in 8mm that were sold to Israel. Later after 1950, the Israeli army converted their 8mm rifles to 7.62 NATO. So at gun shows its easy to find a .308 NATO example with import marks, but a Czech made or redone Israeli K98k still in its original 8mm lacking import marks is a true hard find. Another easy find is the Belgian, FN made K98k in 7.62 NATO with an IDF crest on the receiver. These were made in 7.62 Nato- not conversions.

Darrin Weaver in Israeli K98s, pp. 104-111, in Military Surplus 2018 magazine indicates four main groups of Israeli K98 identities on p. 110: First are German WW II manufactured rifles obtained clandestinely that still maintain their German codes and are in 8mm Mauser. The second group consists of 8mm Mauser rifles made after the war by Zbrojovka Brno. These have Czech markings, can have a Rampant Lion crest, or the winter oversized trigger guard. The third group he indicates are the rifles made by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium. These FN Israeli K98s have the IDF crest . The fourth group he categorizes as the conversions of the first three groups. These 8mm chambered rifles were reworked and re-barreled into .308 converted 8mm Mausers with new NATO barrels that are stamped 7.62 on the receiver and branded deeply into the stock for identification as an overhauled Israeli K98 standardized for .308 NATO ammunition. As you will see, my groupings are based on common attributes and will be grouped slightly differently.

Czech Post-War production K98k Background Information

In an effort to save some time Popeye found the old SRF post that Ed posted on the old forum. It is under the title, Arctic K98k Czech with Winter Trigger Guard, This excellent write up from Jeff Diederich was reposted for the new SRF and it is shown/quoted below. Its link is here:

Added 1 Feb 2018, It has come to my attention that the Milsurp Knowledge Library only allows a limited number of access reads to non members. These links may not work after a certain point. But individuals can use the title that I put in red for a direct goggle search in order to gain access to these fine references that I linked to. So if the link fails, then please do a goggle search under the red title and you should be able to read/review the reference until your number is up or you become a member. The reference article at the Milsurp library is worth the read.

Also see the Milsurp.com sticky by Badger 2007 entitled,
Post-War Czech K98k (Karabiner98) Rifle (Mfg 1945-1950 by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, A. S. BRNO) The direct search link is the red title : 1945-1950 Post-War Czech K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle by Badger see;
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... -98)-Rifle

Here is Popye's SRF post in the lower Quote:
QUOTE
From Ed Hoffer - Apr 16, 2006

Jeff Diederichs; with authors permission


The Arctic k98
After the capitulation of Germany at the end of World War Two, Europe had much to accomplish before returning to any semblance normalcy - both in terms of rebuilding of infrastructure, and the revitalization of economic progress.

Czechoslovakia was no exception, and following the end of control of these weapons production facilities by Germany, production was resumed as quickly as was practical. Czechoslovakian factories had filled military small arms orders preceding the advent of German control, and resumption of weapon production for foreign and domestic military entities began shortly after return of their sovereignty.

German production of the K98k rifle (and other weapons) had continued right up until the "bitter end" of the war, as Soviet forces advanced across the "Ostfront" through Eastern Europe. Consequently, production was essentially "frozen", with much work in process at various stages of manufacturing filling the stockrooms and littering assembly lines of the Brno and Povazská Bystrica plants. These parts represented a vast amount of potential capital, and vested man-hours of labor. Many pieces and parts, however, had been inspected and marked according to Waffenamt inspector's doctrines - some barreled receivers even bore German Eagle/Swastika firing proofs. These parts were used, along with newly manufactured parts, to assemble complete rifles for sale and export. Receiver codes from late German production appear on some receivers, some receiver rings are totally blank, as they filtered through the production lines in various states of German and "liberated" Czechoslovakian production. Some receivers were "scrubbed", or divested of their German date and code markings by grinding. Assembled rifles do, however, display a Czech "Rampant Lion" firing proof, regardless of German markings, and rifles with letter suffixes on their serial numbers display capital letter fonts for the alphabetical character, as opposed to the lower case suffix used exclusively on German produced rifles.

No longer under the extreme pressures of a German supply system in the waning days of a total war, some of the production "shortcuts" employed in the "Kriegsmodell" program were reversed. Czechoslovakia was no longer under the restrictions of the strained German supply system. The bayonet lug was a desirable attribute for many militaries, though the Germans had deemed it's value marginal enough to omit it to save production cost and time. It's use was reinstated for postwar Czechoslovakian K98k rifles.

Stock finish standards returned to earlier, higher levels. The "Kriegsmodell" buttplate with the bolt takedown provision was retained, however. This, in combination with the return of the bayonet lug, is fairly consistent for these rifles.

The characteristic enlarged, stamped triggerguard, with an integral non-removable magazine floorplate is a hallmark of these rifles. The purpose of the enlargement of the guard loop itself is said to facilitate use of the rifle with heavy gloved hands.

It is speculated that by 1945, the Czech and Slovak plants had been almost exclusively supplied with triggerguards from other suppliers in Germany - the main Mauser Oberndorf plant, and Lübecker Maschinenfabrik, both large suppliers of Brno and Povazská Bystrica since 1942. So much so, in fact, that Brno and Povazská Bystrica dropped off utilization of triggerguards of their own manufacture. Following the war, the rifles needed triggerguards, and the German supply had obviously ceased - so the plants began production of this one-piece stamped variety to continue production cost effectively. It is generally held that this was not a German innovation, as they do not display Waffenamts, nor is there documentation of German design (blueprints, specifications, etc.) In any event, they do not appear to show up on pre May 1945 German K98k rifles.

These rifles are, however, every bit as functional as wartime K98k's (and in many cases more finely finished), but are not wartime produced German pieces. Some of the more rare and desirable German codes (dou.45, for example) are displayed on these rifles, and are often misrepresented as of German /Czech origin - replete with the addition of bogus German final firing proofs, and the destruction of Czech "Lion" proofs and markings. Notable is the appearance of the "dot 1945" code on some of these rifles.
here is the added Wayback Machine link to The Arctic K98K see https://web.archive.org/web/20071019222 ... arctic.htm
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#20 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:20 am

The common Czech K98 with Scrubbed Receiver


insert photo 0
Czech scrubbed pic from internet source 0.jpg
Czech scrubbed pic from internet source 0.jpg (33.07 KiB) Viewed 2226 times

In the late 1990s, Czech mausers were plentiful at shows like common Mosins. I never did buy one of these winter trigger, scrubbed receiver, Czech K98ks. They were nothing special, just common shooters. What I wanted was a Czech rebuilt K98k with the late year 1944 or 1945 dated German code and German made receiver with proof marks intact or the Rampant Lion crested example. These were a rare find, difficult to obtain, and much more costly at that time. Since I do not have examples and have not seen these at recent shows, I can not provide specific details on these two Czech rebuilt rifles. What was common at gun shows was the Czech made scrubbed receiver K98k.

Here is an example with detailed reference photos from Libertytreecollectors reference library:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... ategory=82
and still another example with great photos, search direct link title is: Need help identifying some of the markings on a post war Czech K98
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=40797


Samco offered the Czech scrubbed receiver, winter trigger K98k rifles. What I remember about these are that they had the appearance of a “parts rifle”, at least to me. They have a rough receiver with milling lines going around its receiver’s circumference and made up of mostly stamped parts. Some of their features I recall include stocks that looked almost new with a beech or walnut laminated wood having a light brown color and BLO finish, but no cartouches. They had cupped buttplates with a bolt take down hole in the buttplate. They also all had the larger winter, stamped trigger guard assembly, as well as a non removable magazine floor plate. The plate was integral with the trigger housing assembly. The bolt had round gas escape holes, not the normal oblong holes. It had an electro written serial number on the bolt handle and cocking piece and a stamped SN on the receiver-although I am unsure of this. They were advertised as all matching rifles and Badger 2007 (see link) states “...rifles will be serial number marked on the receiver, buttplate, bolt handle, safety, cocking piece, firing pin, bolt shroud, both barrel bands, trigger guard, and the buttstock.”
The bands were late war stamped and welded. Sort of crude looking. I do not remember what the sight looked like. Badger 2007 (see link) indicates “these are late war pattern.”

The main Czech attribute that I never liked was the crudely scrubbed receiver. I like my Crested Mausers. The Arctic Czech mauser’s receiver had milling or file-like marks from the machining that removed the crest. You could literally see lines around the circumference of the receiver, it was not polished. Only a few proof marks were at the wood line. The Czech crossed sword proof mark located next to and in front of the rifles serial number was stamped on the left side of the receiver. They did have a blue to them. The ones I saw came with an original cleaning rod and sight hood, but no sling. Samco had a big push to dump these and had full page adds in magazines around 1995 -1996. In fact issue IV of Surplus Firearms magazine from 1996 has a full page, color, back cover ad. It says “SAMCO leads the way with Mauser Collectables” showing the Persian mauser and the Model 98K Mauser carbine with the steel winter trigger guard. No price was listed. Also no cleaning rod is shown with the rifle. Like wise, the 1995, Vol. III, Surplus Firearms magazine has an ad selling the Czech Winter Trigger guard mauser.

insert ad photo 9
samco artic czech Israeli  9.JPG
The mid 1990s was big for Samco’s sale of the Persian Mausers- they were the only ones that had them. These were mostly mint, fully crested rifles that cost big bucks and they cornered the market on them. I am not sure, but I also remember that Century also offered the Czech K98k rifles and these sold around $150. Interestingly, Surplus Firearms magazine never did a write up of these Arctic/Winter trigger, Cezch mausers. A picture of one shows the side receiver rail on a Czech made receiver is stamped “CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A. S. BRNO.”
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#21 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 am

In summary, the key attributes to a common scrubbed Czech Winter Trigger K98k are the re-blued scrubbed receiver that is marked with a stamped serial number and the Czech crossed swords proof mark; the stamped winter trigger assembly; an intergal, non removable floor plate; and the side rail that is factory stamped: “CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A. S. BRNO. ”
insert photos 5, 6, 7, 8
Czech crossed swords 5.jpg
Screen Shot winter trigger Czech 98 6.png
Czech stamped floorplate 7.jpeg
Czech stamped floorplate 7.jpeg (12.86 KiB) Viewed 2225 times
CzchK98 receiver Libertytree ref lib..jpg 8 .jpg

Unfortunately, I do not own an example. I never wanted one so I am unable to provide finer details. All the Czech 98k photos are from internet sources or reference libraries. I do remember that the bore always seemed good on the ones I picked up to look at. The bolt worked smooth. Non collectors purchased them as shooters because there price was reasonable at $125-150. Gunsmiths wanted them for the receivers. Nowadays if you seen one it’s around $350 at shows in WI. I would refer all readers to read Badger’s 2007 research sticky at Milsurp.com. The direct link to search for this title is : 1945-1950 Post-War Czech K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle by Badger
link here: https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... -98)-Rifle

Here is the major portion of the article for those with older computers where the link does not work:
Before the Second World War, Czechoslovakia had produced the VZ-24 Mauser rifle for many years at their arms factory in in the city of Brno, having received most of their tooling from Germany under the Versailles Treaty in the 1920's. When the Third Reich occupied the Sudatenland and annexed the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1938 and 1939 respectively, the arms plant at Brno was incorporated into the Nazi armaments industry. The VZ-24 continued to be manufactured as the G24(t) and in 1940, the G33/40 mountaineer's carbine was added to production for the German Heer. All this changed in 1943 when pressures on the German arms industry and re-organization of rifle production within the Reich dictated that the Brno factory be re-assigned to begin production of the standard K98k pattern service rifle. At the same time, the plant also took the lead in MG34 manufacture despite the MG34 having been largely supplanted in the infantry by the MG42. This was because the MG34 was better suited to static defense positions in fortress mounts and for use in armored vehicles. From 1942 through 1944, the factory at Brno (known at the time as Waffen-Werke Brunn) utilized the manufacturer's code "dot", though in 1945 it was switched to "swp".

When the war ended, the Brno factory was largely untouched by the war. After the German surrender, the Czech government kept the production lines open and producing armaments. The earliest weapons were assembled entirely of parts left over from the German undertakings at the factory. Thousands of receivers and small parts were still in the production queue and required only final assembly. swp45 and dot44 coded rifles with upper-case serial number suffixes and rampant lion firing proofs are of post-war assembly, regardless the number of German proofs found on the individual parts. "dot45" coded weapons are, without exception, of post-war manufacture, the Czechs having adopted the older dot code after using up all the left-over swp45 and dot44 coded receivers first, many of which had sat in storage after being rejected by WaffenAmpt inspectors for minor flaws during the war.

Early in post-war production, the supply of trigger guards was depleted. Waffen Werke Brunn had received trigger guards and floorplates primarily from Mauser and Gustloff Werke after 1943 due to the abundance of extra production at these facilities once the stamped and welded construction bottom metal parts had been adopted. As the Brno factory no longer posessed the necessary machines to manufacture the older pattern parts, it was decided to tool up to manufacture newer, mass-produced, stamped and welded bottom metal assemblies which combined the features of the American M1903A3 trigger guard and the late-war stamped K98k bottom metal assemblies. The result was an integrated magazine and trigger guard with an enlarged trigger guard bow to facilitate the rifle's operation when wearing gloves. Despite modern marketing techniques, the post-war Czech triger guard design was NEVER implemented during the war by the Germans. The Germans issued a winter trigger guard insert with a toggle that extended along the stock's pistol grip for winter combat. Additionally, the Czechs NEVER marketed their post-war Mausers as "winter" or "Arctic" models. Rather, they sought to provide one model of rifle to their armed forces which could be used in a variety of climates. The feature proved successful and once immediate dometic needs for arms had been addressed, the post-war Czech version of the K98k rapidly became a very popular export rifle until production ceased in about 1950. It is believed that the last receiver code to be used was "tgf50", apparently for sale to East Germany, though tgf coded bayonets have been reported with dates as early as 1946. The first year that tgf was used as a rifle code is unknown to the author.

Most of the post-war Czech K98k's intended for domestic consumption were built without German-style factory codes, or in the case where a coded receiver was used, the codes were scrubbed. The receivers were then roll-marked with the Czech "Rampant Lion" crest. Probably the largest early purchaser of Czech K98k rifles was the fledgling state of Israel. Israel purchased many thousands of new and refurbished WW2 German K98k rifles from the Czechs. They can be found with original ww2 German markings, with post-war dot and swp codes, and occasionally with the domestic production style rampant lion crest. Most were later refurbished in Israel during the 1950's and converted to 7.62 Nato. Although other countries also purchased large quantities of Czech produced K98k's, it is very uncommon to encounter these rifles with intact rampant lion crests. At some point after the initial sales to Israel, it appears the Czechs decided to not sell rifles with their domestic rampant lion crest to foreign customers any longer. Late-production rifles will be coded with the earlier dot45 markings or will bear the tgf production code. As the Czech military began phasing out the issuing of K98k rifles in favor of semi-automatic and select-fire rifles, namely the VZ52 and VZ58, these largely obsolete Mausers were typically lightly refurbished and the Czech lion crests finely ground off prior to being reblued. These ex-Czech army rifles were subsequently sold to a host of customer nations. It is not known to the author whether the crests were ground off to facilitate sale, or if the crests were removed as a matter of policy while still in Czech inventories.


(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Rifles which were refurbished and subsequently sold out of Czech Army inventories will generally have the 1950's era "crossed swords" proof addded next to the serial number in addition to the normally encountered rampant lion firing proofs. Some very late tgf coded rifles sold abroad may also have the crossed swords proof as well, as it is generally accepted that the marking came into use in approximately 1950.

Typical features of Czech post-war production include:

-Rampant Lion firing proofs.
-Semi-kriegsmodel stock with the bolt take-down in the cupped buttplate. Stocks will most commonly be equipped with a bayonet lug.
-Often WW2 german marked parts are found mixed with new production parts.
-Stocks are usually made of either laminated Beech or Walnut.
-Trigger guards are typically either recycled German parts or post-war stamped construction with enlarged trigger guard bow.
-Serial numbers will have upper-case serial number suffixes.
-Receivers rings will typically be: scrubbed, stamped with rampant lion crest, or coded dot44, dot45, swp45 or tgf50.
-Bolt bodies will often be of the kriegsmodel pattern without a guide rib and with drilled round gas escape holes, though the late tgf50 coded rifle bolts had guide ribs.
-Extractors will usually be CZ marked on the reverse side.
-Rifles will be serial number marked on the receiver, buttplate, bolt handle, safety, cocking piece, firing pin, bolt shroud, both barrel bands, trigger guard and the buttstock.
-Rear sight will be of the late-war pattern, unserialized, and without reverse side range markings.
-Czech made K98k slings resemble WW2 German slings except that they usually lack the cross-hatch pattern, and the sling loop will be riveted together, not sewn.
-Czech made bolt bodies will be stamped with the rampant lion firing proof on the bolt knob.
-On receivers not of Nazi origin, the side-wall will generally be stamped "Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka, A.S., BRNO"
It provides fantastic information about these rifles from an individual that actually owns examples of these rifles. There is also a picture tour with 37 pictures by Claven2. the direct link to the pictorial search is title: Post-War Czech K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle
Post-War Czech K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle (Mfg 1945-1950 by Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka, A.S., BRNO)
A must read on the attributes needed to identify Czech K98k versions. link is here:
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/cgnmils ... ner98rifle
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:53 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#22 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 am

Israeli K98k's a review

Israel used the WW II surplus K98k as a primary battle rifle. Their War of Independence in 1948 used the Ex Nazi surplus 8mm K98k's as well as many other rifles. Later this was the favored rifle and it was used into the 1970's by reservists.
An interesting write up on the K98k in Israeli service is found here- it is fantastic:
German 98k rifle in Israeli service
DECEMBER 14, 2015 JWH1975
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/201 ... i-service/



There is a huge surplus rifle market of the WW II German made, the post war Czech rebuilt and new manufactured, as well as the FN Belgian manufactured Israeli K98 mausers. Many versions can be found at gun shows. The hardest to find specimens are intact 8mm mausers that have not been converted to 7.62 NATO. These still have the German markings intact, although some may have their Nazi marks obliterated. An ex Nazi K98 with an Israeli proof is a very hard find and may lack import marks. I can not really describe these because I have never actually seen one in person.

I would say there are two broad categories of Israeli K98k's. First, the impossible to find ones still in 8mm, with German codes and proofs, and second, the ones actually seen at gun shows -- the Nato 7.62 conversions or 7.62 FN made Israeli K98s. Both are stamped "7.62" at the forward top edge of the receiver and this is also marked on the stock. Some of these may not have import marks, but most do. These 7.62 NATO converted Israeli mausers include Czechoslovakian rebuilt varieties and those manufactured in the NATO caliber by FN, Belgian during 1952-1953. There are Czech refurbished Ex-German WW II rifles and Czech built K98k's that have a German factory code on the receiver, but are stamped "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO" on the left side rail. A third rifle type seen at the shows is the Czech made rifle with the Rampant Lion crest. The most common type is the FN K98 with the IDF crest that was actually made in 7.62 NATO, but as a safety factor is still stamped "7.62" on the receiver and heel of the beechwood stock. The Israeli K98 rifles in their service went through an Israeli rebuild program that converted the 8mm rifles into updated 7.62 NATO rifles. Any 8mm K98k was updated with a new barrel and magazine assembly to use 7.62 Nato ammo. These rifles were still in use during the 1973 Yom Kippur war. In the mid 1980s Israeli mausers started to show up on the surplus market. I saw most around the late 1990s. An ad for the Gibbs Rifle Company offered a mix of these models around 1999-2000. See Surplus Firearms magazine, VII, 2000; the front inside cover's full page ad lists a variety of Israeli mausers. The advertisement indicates they are imprinted with "7.62" on the receiver ring and have manufacturers markings as follows: "WW II with German Waffen codes, WW I German with imperial markings, post WW II Cezch manufacture with Rampert Lion Crest, and post WW II FN Herstal with Israeli crest. "

Century Arms and Southern Ohio Guns offered the NATO 7.62 Israeli mausers around 2001-2003 for $250-300. However, some of the really nice ones started appearing at shows in the early 1980s and these were about 80 bucks. These came from Armscorp and Hunters Lodge. Navy Arms offered surplus K98 rifles in the early 1990s. Around 2004-2006, I began to see the really beat CAI examples that originated from Guatemala and were in poor condition. Barrels are sewer pipes. The wood is cracked, beat, dented and has a dragged behind a tractor look about it. The metal has no blue, is well worn, and rust pitted. Most do not headspace on a FIELD .308 Forster gauge. Barrels are dark and poor at best, chambers can be rusty. Bolts do not match. What follows is a review of the easily found Israeli K98ks at gun shows. I will review what attributes help identify each type.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#23 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:34 am

Czechoslovakian Refurbished Ex-German WW II K98k

These are 8mm mauser, Ex Nazi, German made WW II abandoned/captured/scrapped K98k surplus rifle that the Czechs refurbished a wee bit to make them serviceable for combat. There is no 7.62 Nato conversion or "7.62" stampings on the rifle. These did not get subjected to the rebuild program. They are basically still German WW II mausers with their receiver code, date, proofs and original barrels intact. These can have the Israeli proof marks; the star with a hebrew letter J inside, or a circle with a odd looking Y (hebrew tsiyon) inside this circle. These proofs are found generally on the left side of the receiver.
insert photo side marks 1
is side mks ww 2 1 .jpg
is side mks ww 2 1 .jpg (29.72 KiB) Viewed 2223 times

All other markings are German. There is no BRNO factory code on the rail, just the German "Mod 98" . The stock is German with the bolt take down washer and cupped butt plate. Most of the small parts match the rifle and retain their German proof stampings. These ex WW II K98k rifles have no Czechoslovak markings. The only attribute that helps identify these are the Israeli proofs and the possible original Israeli sling. The Israeli K98 sling is very similar to the German K98 sling except for brass hardware and the brass slide buckle with the circle stamp with a Hebrew character inside the circular stamp. Some have sewn on buckles (early ones), but later slings will have two rivets holding on the buckle. The rifle has the same looking blue as a German bring back rifle. They actually look like bring backs to me, except for the Israel star and the y in a circle (Iserali stamped proofs) on the left side of the rifle's receiver. The best find is an Israeli proofed K98k still in 8mm mauser with its Nazi markings intact. Some have no import mark. Swastikas and waffenampts may be pinged out or left intact.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#24 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:36 am

Czechoslovakian Built K98k with Ex-German Parts

These have late dates and German receiver codes, but are the post-war BRNO factory manufactured K98ks. Most of these are made from left over German parts. These have a number of different receiver codes such as dot 44, dot 45, and swp 45. More codes may exist. The one I saw at a show had a normal trigger guard and magazine. I do not remember much else about these. These can be found in 8mm mauser, but most have been converted to 7.62 NATO. They have late war features and still are not marked with the BRNO factory marking, it is an early built rifle utilizing left over German surplus receivers. I just have not seen these at gun shows, therefore can not provide more descriptive attributes. The key to its identification is the fact that it still has a German receiver, no Brno factory stampings on the rail, a normal trigger and magazine, and a normal German stock or a stock that may be lacking the stock washer.

insert rail & receiver photos 2 & 3
on line rail mod 98 & isreali mks 2.jpg
german k98 rail mks with Israeli mks 3 .jpg
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#25 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:44 am

Czechoslovakian Built K98k "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO" ARTIC Czech K98

I believe these were made after 1948 and are different than the original German K98 in that the magazine was made of stamped steel and did not have a removable floor plate. It utilized the larger stamped, winter trigger guard, a beech wood stock lacking a cleaning rod hole, a bolt take down hole in the butt plate, stamped & welded late war style bands, a band spring, a post war Czech barrel, and no dirty birds or waffenamt markings. The left side rail will have "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO" stamped on it. The receiver markings can vary, the receiver could have the Czechoslovakian, Rampant Lion crest on Israeli examples (a type of its own discussed later); be sterile- no crest, yet have a 7.62 stamp on the receiver (most are non Israeli specimens called the winter/arctic trigger guard K98); or the post war marked DOU 45, SWP 45 on Israeli examples. The sterile receivers can be finely ground smooth and reblued or can be roughly ground showing milling lines around the receiver. I have seen a scrubbed receiver stamped "7.62" - not sure if they exist as Israeli property marked rifles? Many variations exist of these Czech made K98 rifles. They vary in their combinations of parts utilized and their receiver markings on the Israeli rifle. Most will have late war features. The key attribute is the Winter/Arctic large trigger guard and the markings on the left rail for "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO". There will also be Israeli proof marks. Most examples seen at gun shows will be converted 7.62 Nato examples. The receiver will have the "7.62" stamped at the top edge of the receiver above the Rampant lion crest or above the lower edge marked with dou/swp45 markings. If the receiver has a dou 45, German code, the 7.62 stamp can be placed near the middle or more likely more toward the top edge of the receiver well above the code marking. In addition, the stock was stamped or burned in with a large "7.62" on the left side or heal of the stock. The hardest example to find would be the Rampant Lion crest with or without the "7.62" stamp on the receiver, it is easier to find an Israeli "7.62" stamped K98k marked dou 45 or swp 45. The post war marked dou/swp 45 and the Rampant Lion marked rifles are a rare find and will cost more than an FN 7.62 Belgian made Israeli K98k.

I recently found an example of a 7.62 NATO converted, post war, Czech built K98k.
another SRF post with an example viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1131
and have provided a photo overview of my dou 45 rifle below.
Photos insert folder 1 dou 45 LM 20 photos
IMG_1139.JPG
IMG_1136.JPG
IMG_1134.JPG
IMG_1133.JPG
IMG_1131.JPG
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#26 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:46 am

More photos of above rifle dos 45:
IMG_1149.JPG
IMG_1148.JPG
IMG_1142.JPG
IMG_1141.JPG
IMG_1140.JPG
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#27 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:49 am

More photos of above rifle dou 45:
IMG_1161.JPG
IMG_1157.JPG
IMG_1155.JPG
IMG_1154.JPG
IMG_1153.JPG
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#28 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:51 am

The last 4 photos of the above rifle dou 45
IMG_1162.JPG
IMG_1163.JPG
IMG_1156.JPG
IMG_1152.JPG
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#29 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:53 am

Looking at the above rifle here are some of its attributes. This one was made from left over and newly made stamped parts-- winter trigger guard and stock. This one has a German receiver with markings "Mod. 98", "dou. 1945" and is not one of the common Czech K98s exhibiting the winter trigger guard and scrubbed top receiver. At the very upper edge of the receiver above Mod. 98 is deeply stamped "7.62". The receiver markings and Nazi inspection markings remain intact on most parts. However, the only matching numbers are found on the receiver and the bolt. The bolt does not match itself.

The 8mm barrel was rebarreled to a 7.62 NATO barrel on 8/56 and it lacks any original German barrel codes. If you look on the right side of the barrel, you will see the "8/56" date stamp, an "arrow" and also see a "7.62". The left side of the receiver has a Czech firing proof on the barrel and two Israeli proofs: the nun inside a star and the Hebrew letter tsiyon (a Y inside a circle) positioned below the original receiver's serial number. No additional dot matrix, importer serial number has been applied. In fact, this rifle has no import markings on it.
The left rail is marked "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO".

Curiously, the sight base displays Nazi inspection markings. Likewise the bolt pieces and the stock bolt still retain their Nazi markings. This rifle has the stamped winter trigger guard and an Israeli Beech stock with late war features. The postwar Beech replacement stock is typical of these late 1950 Israeli conversions in having a bayo. lug, but no bolt takedown disk or cleaning rod. In fact it is not even drilled for a cleaning rod. It has a late war leaf spring that holds both the stamped lower band and the milled upper band. It has a cupped buttplate with a bolt take down hole in it. The heal of the stock has a large 7.62 deeply burned into the wood.

This CZ made K98k is a total miss match of German and some Israeli parts (stock and buttplate). It has a four digit serial number with a J letter code below the serial number, an excellent bore, and a well used and oil darkened stock. Headspace is perfect. It is a 1956 Israeli NATO rebuild that has a late Israeli K98 style sling with brass fittings and sling loop. The buckle is brass with a hebrew letter stamped on it and the frosch has a brass button. The sling is not sewn, but has 2 large brass rivets holding on the buckle. The rifle has no defaced Swastikas most likely because the 8mm barrel and original laminated stock has been replaced. There is no IDF crest. This K98k is a product the Israeli program to rebuild, rechamber, and update their 8mm K98s to 7.62 Nato.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#30 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:55 am

FN Belgian Contract Israeli 7.62 K98k with IDF crest

I always see these at gun shows, the trick is to find one in great condition. Cruffler.com, Firearm's Review of the Month for January 2001, has a nice write up and history of this Israeli K98k. insert photo IDF rifle
IDF  unknow on line source k98  1.jpg
The link is provided here:
http://www.cruffler.com/review-January-01.html
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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