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Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

Gew88, Gew98, Kar98 etc.
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72 usmc
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#106 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:31 pm

German WW2 K98 Mauser, an interesting Gew Rebuild

I am providing photos and links for two specimens. The first is Libertytreecollector' Spandau 1917s with a replacement barrel and Beswick's, 1918, C G Haenal Suhl, Gew98 with the original Gew 98 barrel cut down. I am providing photos from the sources because if one has an outdated computer sometimes the links do not open. Other times the original link/post is gone/deleted. So here is a documented record of two nice Gew 98s converted to K98k rifles.


Here is an odd duck, a K98 made up from a rebuilt GEW 98 in 1937. Not what I would call a cheep or a commonly found K98. I have never seen one of these at a gun show in WI. I wonder how many of these were made? Source is Libertytreecollectors: https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... dcategory=
What they say about this jewel.
This offering is for the pictured German WW2 K98 Mauser Rifle. An interesting configuration of parts, likely assembled into K98 configuration as need for the war effort.

From the Craig Brown German Mauser Collection.

Receiver is WW1 Spandau Arsenal, dated 1917, metal finish is mostly a worn blue, attractive gun metal gray in most of the receiver area.
Serial numbers no longer match but these parts match the receiver, barrel, rear sight, bolt stop, butt plate, follower, floor plate and trigger guard. Band are mis matched and unmarked. bolt is mis matched. Barrel is an Erma marked replacement.
Sound Laminated stock and hand guard, both un numbered.
Chambered in 8mm Mauser the bore is brite with very good rifling, slight frost in the grooves. Not import marked.
When it's sold the pictures will be gone so here are some highlights from their photos so they stay as a record.
577K98.JPG
577K98.18.jpg
577K98.12.jpg
577K98.17.jpg
577K98.13.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:44 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#107 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:32 pm

577K98.10.jpg
577K98.7.jpg
577K98.3.jpg
:arrow:
Here is a link to another example on the K98 forum with some nice close up views, so they must be out there? Beswick's C G Haenal Suhl Gew98 rework to a K98k. You got to see this fine example; compliments of the K98 forum link shown below. He has some great views.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php ... -98-Rework
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#108 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:35 am

Here are some of the pictures you can not see in Beswick's, 1918, C G Haenal Suhl, Gew98 rework to a K98k. All pictures are from above source: Beswick photos
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php ... -98-Rework
A truly fantastic rifle. This source hidden views are reposted here:
gew98_rework_23.jpg
gew98_rework_22.jpg
gew_98_rework3.jpg
gew_98_rework5.jpg
gew98_rework_19.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#109 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:37 am

More Beswick hidden views:
gew98_rework_15.jpg
gew98_rework_13.jpg
gew98_rework_14.jpg
gew98_rework_24.jpg
Some deletion problems on a duplicate?? :doh: This lower photo is a duplicate that does not want to go away?

I guess we can all add a very hard to find, I have never seen one at a show in Wi, example of a Gew98 converted to a k98k to our list. Also, the impossible to find: Norwegian 30-06 K98k. Those are two you just never see. The big time collectors on the 98 forum sure have some great finds. Note the condition and patina of the metal & wood on this rifle- what dreams are made of. I guess if one was lucky to find one in such nice condition, the price would be beyond the reach of most. Values seem to be around $1000 and who knows at todays market's crazy prices. Most likely much more. :think:
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gew98_rework_14.jpg
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#110 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:03 am

Time for a switch on the german K98. Any see anything at the shows.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#111 Post by indy1919a4 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:25 am

Picked up a nice 1893 "Argentine" Mauser carbine in 7.65.. But here was the catch it had a spanish Crest on it.. So it turned out to be one of the 10,000 carbines that were being made for Argentina, But were shipped to Spain from Mauser for the 1893-94 rebellion in the City state of Melilla in Spanish Morocco. After the Rebellion was put down. These guns were not wanted back in Spain, because Spain standardized to the 7mm cartridge. So these were sent off to Cuba... So the story goes... and then later captured in Cuba and sold to Bannerman and then by Bannerman.

The rifle is stamped Berlin 1894 so it was one of the few Rifles that not already made for Argentina, but was finished for Spain, When the emergency in Melilla happen and then was shipped to Morocco for the battles that took place in 1894... It shows how fast things can ship at the turn of the 20th Century

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#112 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:30 am

I stumbled upon an old gun boards post that I really like; I could not have said it better:

It has to do with Russian Captures and the urge to modify them & spoken by Gunboard's member Fritz:
There is a whole lot of wisdom here.
Fritz
Senior Member


The argument for leaving it on is as follows:

It is a part of the history of the gun: Removing it is no different than removing shellac finish from a 1939 K31 that was refurbished in 1951 (and so marked) and then applying a linseed-wax finish correct for 1939. It is no longer correct as it left service, it has been restored to an earlier configuration. A knowledgeable collector will know the rifle is no longer like the Russian packed it away after refurbishment. That which is done cannot be undone.

A lot of collectors cannot resist the urge to make their arms pretty. In a few decades the guns with the shellac will have added value for being in the last issued configuration. Similar to guys with unissued No4 MK II guns in the grease wrap. Many cannot resist the urge to unwrap and so now 15 years after imported, the ones still in the wrap are worth a 200 dollar premium (to some people) over a perfect rifle with the wrap removed.

Now some may find the above comparison silly, but consider the red shellac coated K98K rifle were set up for long term storage that way: the shellac-iodine mix was meant to preserve the wood in storage (prevent the wood drying out and mold).

Further just because today folks like rifles that look a certain way does not mean that will be the case 25 years from now. In 1965 sporting old military rifles was the thing to do: By 1985 collectors look on them as "butchered" guns, despite the fact many of them are very nicely done. But fashion changes and arms that were sported along the lines of what was considered modern in 1965 seem very dated today in a time when plastic stocks with stainless metal and a scope are the norm.

Case in point: in 1995 SCW arms were pretty much ignored, now there is a small set of collectors who want them, and they want them as they left Spanish service. Today everyone want a K98K as it left German service and so many post war reworks are being humped back into that which approximates that condition. The time may come when the post-war Russian, Hungarian, east German, west German, middle eastern, Czech, Romanian and Yugo modified K98K rifles that saw use in the post war conflicts from 1945 to 2000 are seen a highly collectable in their last issued form.



Yes there are arguments for removing the shellac, but this post was specific to the argument for retaining same.
source of quote: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... -remove-it
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#113 Post by indy1919a4 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm

Ahhh The vagaries of collecting

Price = ((Object + Desire) x (Time + youthful desires & Wishes / Mortality) - Changing society desires & Norms ) / your desire to spend money that week

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#114 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:43 am

NOT COMMON AT ALL

A very odd form/variant of k98? Or at least a sort of K98 looking thing? See the bottom link to a post for the answer to this from ( pzjz.) Could you imagine stumbling onto one of these at a show for $500- that would be a deal of a life time. I am showing this info. because I never seen one and did not know anything about this odd rifle. Such a rifle would be a nice find. It is 8mm. Apparently no K98 parts would fit a G98 40.



I first saw an example here. This is from Fine Old Guns Headquarters. I have never seen one of these at a gun show. Pictures and the description in quotes are from the source.
Hungarian G98/40

Here is a video from Forgotten Weapons on Hungarian rifles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVojDUEmfjs

Some history and close up photos if you actually ever see one of these rare rifles:
http://www.hungariae.com/Mann9840.htm

Libertytreecollectors Reference library has a posted example with great detailed photos A MUST SEE LNK:
German Model G98/40 Rifle jvh 1943 REF
Our Products: Firearms > Reference Library
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... oduct=6389
Screen Shot 2018-12-17 at 9.09.51 AM.png
Calguns Louie's example G98/40 with nice photos here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... ?t=1229338

By Badger, See Milsurps Reference Library link to a G98/40 dated 41; it has 74 pictures of a rifles details
Screen Shot 2018-12-17 at 7.17.15 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-17 at 7.17.15 PM.png (34.47 KiB) Viewed 28 times
link to photos
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/cgnmils ... /g9840andy
link to library write up. Primary source with very detailed information
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... -Serial-1a




source is Fine Old Guns Headquarters
HUNGARIAN MODEL 98/40 RIFLE (CODE JHV MADE IN 1943) CALIBER 8MM MAUSER The Hungarians became a separate nation at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire. They adopted a home designed rifle, the Model 35 chambered for the 8 mm rimmed cartridge in 1935. The rifle used a two piece stock. With Nazi Germanys growing power they decided to change the rifle to be compatible with the German 8 mm rimless cartridge. The magazine was made flush with the bottom of the receiver and the bayonet lug modified to accept the German bayonet. German weapons inspectors took over the inspection and marking of the Hungarian rifles. The new rifles were given the code of jhv and the waffenamt (weapons inspector) code 56. These markings appeared on Hungarian rifles. These rifles were given the designation G98/40 and this was stamped on the left side of the receiver.

The Hungarian army participated in the invasion of Russia in the summer of 1941 and in many battles in Russia thereafter, they suffered heavy losses at Stalingrad in November 1942 and made little contribution to German military efforts thereafter.

This rifle was made in Hungarian in 1943 and has the jhv code for Hungarian firearms and standard waffenamts in the metal. The barrel bands and floor plate match, but the bolt does not match the receiver. This is a common problem with the 98/40 rifles. The stock is European hardwood. It has a good sized ding on the left side near the front. There is no pitting, and the bluing would rate about 90%. The bore is some darkening in the grooves, but sharp riflings.

Very few Hungarian G98/40 rifles appear on the U.S. collectors market. We suspect that most were lost in Russia.
Their web page picture:
smof6366.jpg

Not sure how long this link will work but here are some great photos from a SOLD AUCTION at Rock Island (Ya, that hard to find, no wonder I have never seen on at a gun show) Talk about rare and cool!

Here is a screen shot of the Rock Island example if the link goes down. Check out the link for some great photos Of that G98/40
Screen Shot 2018-12-17 at 8.52.17 AM.png
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detai ... tion-rifle


More information and history on these links:
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... -40-Rifles

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... -the-98-40
From the above source as to if it's a form of K98. Quote from above pzjr states:
The 98/40 was the manufactured for the Germans version of the Hungarian 35M Mannlicher rifle. It really has nothing in common with the 98k other than caliber, as it is a Mannlicher rifle, with a split stock...I don't think any of the parts on the 98/40 will even interchange with 98k parts. Interesting and neat rifles, not very common, and not documented much in use via photos...
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#115 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:46 am

OK, I love Rock Island Auctions.. and have nothing but high respect for them..

But in that example the rifle ended at 8+k

Here is one on Gunbroker that went a lot less and kinda went fishing for a bid..
And over the few years I have seen these in the 1500 range on gunbroker.

Now the Rock island one is a lot cleaner but 7 $ thousand more???
Last edited by indy1919a4 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#116 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:58 am

I agree they seem to go $1500-4000 for average specimens and it appears a lot are humped. I left the prices out on most of the links. It would be a lucky day if one could stumble onto one at a small show at $500 because they think it's a common K98 or do not know the type. :lol: :shhh: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
I wonder if any were mixed in with all those Russian rebuilt RCs back in the day? Of late, I do not see RCs, Bulgarian K98s, Israeli, or Czech K98s at gun shows. It seems there are more expensive K98 bring backs at most shows in the $1500-3000. Most do not sell. Things have sort of dried up till one of us old guys die and the goodies from the last 50 years come out of the wood work.
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Re: Military Surplus k98ks commonly found at gun shows

#117 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:04 pm

Well to find that rifle at a better price.. you should set up there as a dealer so you are in at set up and you kinda need to set through the whole show for walkins.. When you go in as a regular person, that rifle has been viewed many times by people who know better..

Yeah things have dried up.. I can still get crowds gather at shows when I tell of the days when there would be open crates of m-48s and the dealer was lowering the price to about 100 dollars get peoples interest.. and it was not that long ago

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