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Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

Les Fusils Militaires Français, Chassepot, Gras, Lebel, Berthier et MAS 36
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M67
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Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#1 Post by M67 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:05 am

I have just one french weapon in my small collection. I have never had a big wish to buy some French weapon. But, I got one chance to have one connected to our history in Slovenia. The rifle Berthier M07-15.
What was the history about these rifles in Slovenian teritory? First of all, Berthier M07-15 rifles were a part of Austro-Hungarian auxiliary armament as a confiscated weapons. Beside that, they were in Italian army and in Yugoslav kingdom army from ww1 to the ww2. However, the most important role these rifles had during ww2 especially during Italian occupation. In that time (1942), some anticommunist units were formed and collaborated with Italians is small teriotorial defence units called Village Security or MVAC- Milizia Volontaria Anti-Communista. The most reconizable weapon in these units were French long rifles M07/15 with three round clip.
I bought this rifle in one of the village, where this units were operated during ww2. Rifle is matching (four digit serial number)except the stock. I assumed that this was a long time ago maybe after ww1.
At the outbreak of World War I, the Model 1907 Berthier rifle was modified for mass manufacturing, resulting in the Mdle 07-15. The sights, barrel band, and stacking hook were simplified to increase the rate of production. The rifle M07-15 was modified to take the same bayonet as the Lebel, simplifying supply. The turned-down bolt handle was changed to a simpler straight bolt. Some early production M07-15 has the turned down bolt handle.
I have one clip and one bayonnet for this rifle. I hope I will find the ammo pouch too.
Attachments
lebel zaklep.jpg
lebel SN.jpg
lebel notri.jpg
lebel napis.jpg
lebel desna.jpg
Last edited by M67 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berthier Mle M07/15 find

#2 Post by M67 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:06 am

More photos..
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mas 1915.jpg
lebel kopito.jpg
lebel cev 2.jpg
lebel 8x50R.jpg
Lebel 1z.jpg
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Re: Berthier Mle M07/15 find

#3 Post by M67 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:10 am

And phostos of Anti- Communist Village Security from Slovenia during 1942-43. (photos are from the net).
Attachments
MVAC Vnanje Gorice1943.jpg
MVAC Pudob1942.jpg
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#4 Post by Tuna » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:10 pm

During WW1 the Serbian Army fought on the Salonika front. They were armed and supplied by the French Army. They kept the rifles in the Yugoslavian Army till the Mausers were made in enough numbers. That this is very likely where your rifle came from.

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#5 Post by M67 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:03 am

Yes, this is one of the most likely variant. I know that Serbian Army after the retreit to Krf Island was equiped By France. After the capitulation of Yugoslav Royal forces the Italian, German and Hungarian seized huge arsenal of modern and obsolete armament and rifles Berthier M07/15 were among obsolete weaponary. Italians equiped collaboration forces mainly with that obsolete armament. Partizans never liked these too long rifles and ammunition supply was a huge problem.
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#6 Post by vandle » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:43 am

Nice example and cool history behind it,
Thanks for sharing
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#7 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:54 am

I would think after a few months there would not even be any more ammo...I would assume that shipments were not made during the war..

Do you find any on the secondary markets still???

Does the receiver have an "N" stamped in it???

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#8 Post by M67 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:19 am

indy1919a4 wrote: I would think after a few months there would not even be any more ammo...I would assume that shipments were not made during the war..

Do you find any on the secondary markets still???

Does the receiver have an "N" stamped in it???


1. Italians had a huge pile of that 8x50R Ball D ammo, because they had their own production. They used befor and during ww2 a lot of French St.Etienne Mle 1907 macchine guns.
2. I dont know what do you mean?
3. No, it doesnt.
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#9 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:05 pm

Wow did not know Italy produced its own 8x50r ammo.. Thanks..

I wanted to ask if you find much 8mm lebel surplus ammo in people's garages or for sale in stores. Or is that pretty much all gone..??

Hey a follow up questions are the lebel steel clips scarce or common over there..?? What would be the going price for one?? Over here the ready supply has seemed to have dried up..

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#10 Post by M67 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:50 pm

I made a terrible mistake regarding Italian 8x50R production.
I do a deeply apologize. I was sure that I have Italian production Lebel ammo. However, it is actually Austrian HIRTENBERGER production for the Italy in 1936. I have 6,5x52 Carcano from this producer. All ammunition has small star and year of production 1936. In the beginning of the war in Africa- Ethiopia or in Italian Abessinia Italian government ordered in Austria almost all sort of their calibres (10, 35 IO, 6,5 Carcano, 8 mm Breda, 8 mm Lebel and 8 mm Manlicher ). I have dozens of that high quality ammo and for me is important that was actually an attic find and a gift from my friend.

Mike, Sorry! I do apologize again!
Attachments
H 1936 dva.jpg
H 1936 4.jpg
H 1936 3.jpg
H 1936 1.jpg
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#11 Post by indy1919a4 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:27 pm

I have never seen that shell case before.. that is very neat.. thanks... Thanks again for sharing..

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#12 Post by indy1919a4 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:29 pm

M67 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:50 pm

Mike, Sorry! I do apologize again!
Never a need my friend.... never a need...

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#13 Post by M67 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:47 pm

indy1919a4 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:27 pm
I have never seen that shell case before.. that is very neat.. thanks... Thanks again for sharing..
HIRTENBERGER.

I know , I know. A little joke! But I have to say!
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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#14 Post by M67 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:18 am

Additional info. Confirmed, that Italy had their own production of 8x50R Lebel ammo.

PB and SMI were the government production plants for military production of 8 mm Lebel.ž
I know, that i red about this. However, I have to check all my cartridges collection.
Attachments
8 mm lebel knjiga.jpg
Last edited by M67 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
»You're a disgrace. I'd like to know how you got to be a Captain, anyway. »Yossarian: »You promoted me.« Colonel Cathcart: » That has got nothing to do with it.«

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Re: Berthier Mle M07 -15 find

#15 Post by indy1919a4 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:02 pm

Wow, again.. see you were right before you knew it...

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